One friend of mine told me that his wife always sees a special dream before her veset. Always the same one.

Could such think be counted as veset kavua?

I understand that technically a dream doesn't apply to any type of veset that are mentioned in Sh.O. (correct me if I wrong). I am searching for an explicit mentioning of such thing in poskim.

Any sources or insightful thoughts are appreciated.

  • Well, I just found out what a veset is here: yoatzot.org/article.php?id=43 , and it explains related terms, so I could figure out what this question was actually asking...Hebrew vocabulary +2.. – Gary Mar 22 '14 at 3:42
  • I guess the question is whether having a certain dream is an other (unwritten) example of "setting a veset due to occurrences in her body" in Shulchan Aruch Siman 189:19-26). – Meir Zirkind Mar 23 '14 at 5:38
  • Depending on what the dream is it is either included in 189:19 and it is a וסת or 189:17 and standing alone it is not. – Dov F Oct 4 '17 at 15:02

Dinonline was asked this very question here and they responded,

A person often dreams about something he is experiencing (for instance, somebody listening to the radio might dream about what he’s hearing). This is apparently why the woman in question dreamed about her veset on the night she received it.

This is not related to the concept of veset ha-guf, which is not a matter of perceiving a veset, but rather a physical sign of an impending veset. In the case of the dream the indication is that a veset was actually experienced. If this is not the case – a woman had the dream but she woke up without any veset beginning – there is no need for concern.

I should note that I have not seen anybody actually mention the question.

  • 4
    This is a separate question of whether one should be worried when they have a dream of experiencing a veses to separate from her husband or not. But this question is when the dream was happenig exactly at the time of the veses every single time, can we ignore the veses hachodesh and veses haflogo By considering the dream a veses kavua. e.g 1st of nisan she has a dream and subsequently a discharge this has already happened 3 times before. Can the woman ignore the veses hachodesh on the 1st of iyar having relations with her husband relying on her dream that hasn't occurred yet as a veses kavua? – user15464 Oct 19 '17 at 7:49

The Gemora Nidda would seem to exclude from being a vesset any non physical changes to the body as it says in the Mishna Niddah 63a:

מתני' כל אשה שיש לה וסת דיה שעתה ואלו הן הוסתות מפהקת ומעטשת וחוששת בפי כריסה ובשפולי מעיה ושופעת וכמין צמרמורות אוחזין אותה וכן כיוצא בהן וכל שקבעה לה שלשה פעמים הרי זה וסת:
Any woman that has a fixed moment (discharging blood at the start of her period), only has to stop relations when the fixed moment occurs, e.g. her joints start making popping sounds or she burps , she starts sneezing irregularly, she has a feeling in her stomach or intestines, etc.

The Gemora calls these occurrences specifically: הכא בוסתות דגופא - fixed Bodily occurrences that indicate the coming of blood.

The only other veses is the Haflaga (interval) gap or the chodesh(monthly) time related veses as the Gemora indicates when mentioning the only other instance that veses has been mentioned earlier on in Niddah 2a:

תנינא חדא זימנא כל אשה שיש לה וסת דיה שעתה התם בוסתות דיומי.

The Shulchan Aruch Choshen Mishpot 255,9 and Rambam hil. Maaser sheni 6,6 and in other places paskens: דברי חלומות לא מעלין ולא מורידין - dreams can not be of any repercussions, yet the Gemora Nedorim says: אמר רב יוסף נידוהו בחלום צריך י' בני אדם להתיר לו - if he was excomunicated in a dream he needs to annul the excomunication in front of 10 people, which would indicate the dream counts for some things. So we must conclude that we worry about repercussions of dreams Lechumra (to be strict on him) but we do not heed repercussios of dreams Lekula (to be lenient). So a dream where the excommunicator redeems his ban does not count as the Gemora then says:אמר ליה רב אחא לרב אשי שמתיה ושרו ליה בחלמיה מאי אמר ליה כשם שאי אפשר לבר בלא תבןכך אי אפשר לחלום בלא דברים בטלים.

1. So we see that we only take notice of a Dream Lechumra to be mechayev the dreamer to separate from his wife for concern that she might discharge blood.
2. However to Release her from a vesset Kavua which she already had e.g a discharge sequence: 30 day gap 3 times followed by a dream preceeding a discharge 3 times in the sequence 30, 30, 31 days, then the next month she should separate on day 30 even though she hasn't had the dream yet. Therefore it seams one cannot rely on dreams to make a new vesset Kavua (fixed) to break a vesset haguf or vesset zman that already exists.

  • Can you clarify your first statement in your conclusion? I didn't see where you brought a source to obligate a woman to separate out of concern. You brought sources about different vestos, then you brought sources saying in various contexts we don't pay attention to dreams at all, and regarding nedarim we are concerned for dreams. Where do you see from here that we must be stringent regarding the woman separating? is that just your assumption, or did i not understand your sources properly? – Binyomin Mar 17 at 9:45

Shalom u'vracha! There is no such thing as a "veset chalom". There is a general rule that "chalomot lo ma'alin v'lo moridin"; this means that dreams don't make any difference to us. Such a dream would not render a woman prohibited to her husband nor require separation at any time.

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .