The custom in Chabad is to eat Mezonos before Davening (to enable one to daven later and meditate on Hashem).

The only reason we don't do kiddush before davening is because "the time didn't come yet" - one can't do Kiddush without a meal and one can't eat a meal before davening.

Yet, since one already eats Mezonos, one can do kiddush and eat Mezonos. Why isn't it done?

  • 2
    +1. Whether or not eating m'zonos before davening and using m'zonos for kiddush b'makom s'uda creates a תרתי דסתרי situation (with respect to the status of m'zonos foods) is an interesting question.
    – Fred
    Nov 7, 2013 at 20:28

2 Answers 2


See here where it is a machlokes rishonim if kiddush can apply before Davening, and the halacha as decided by the Shulchan Aruch is like the opinion that it does not.

The Mishna Brurah holds that you do need to make kiddush before davening, but I guess the best way to understand him is that he is being more strict than the Shulchan Aruch in this. In any event, Shulchan Aruch didn't really address eating before davening, as it is normally not allowed.

Those who allow eating before davening, allow it strictly in order to be able to concentrate better during davening. Accordingly, a teacher of mine (Rabbi Avraham Mann) said this would even allow eating bread before davening. It is the custom not to, but in strict halacha, there is no difference.

  • Actually, I saw somewhere that some Mashpiyim (around a hundred years ago) said to davka eat bread, since it's not a "Tayva". Nov 7, 2013 at 22:08
  • So we just ignore the Shulchan Aruch's reasoning Lekula? Nov 7, 2013 at 22:09
  • @ShmuelBrin, sorry I don't understand the question?
    – Yishai
    Nov 7, 2013 at 22:17
  • @ShmuelBrin its not a matter of lekula, its "if kiddush can apply before Davening" - i dont know what it says in shulchan aruch harav, but he may pasken like the shulchan aruch, in which case this behavior would make alot of sense. Nov 8, 2013 at 1:01
  • @tryingToGetProgrammingStraight The Shulchan Aruch says that Kiddus doesn't apply because we can't eat a Seuda. Now that we do (practically, with Mezonos), why shouldn't we do kiddush? In other words, let's say a person's patur from davening (he forgot all the words), can he eat bread but be patur from Kiddush the whole day? Nov 8, 2013 at 2:09

I recall hearing once (possibly in the name of Rav Soloveichik?) that the obligation of morning kiddush only comes into effect after the shmoneh esrei of shacharis because it was instituted for the second shabbos meal (first of the day) which is supposed to be after davening.

Notwithstanding any of this, Fred's comment seems to answer the question rather neatly. If you can make kiddush on it, it's a seudah and you can't have it before shacharis. If you can have it before shacharis, you can't make kiddush on it. This begs the question which I will ask separately.

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    We know the halacha is that it is supposed to be after davening. But now that certain people decide to have it before davening, why don't they say kiddush then?
    – Double AA
    Nov 7, 2013 at 20:59
  • I was trying to say that there is no chiyuv until after davening mishum lo plug. Probably shouldn't have even brought up the last half of the sentence
    – Yitzchak
    Nov 7, 2013 at 21:02
  • @DoubleAA question of not eating b4 tefillah is different, yes halachacly u r not allowed 2, but there must be some sort of heter (i have heard a bit, dont remember the details), the question is really are u chayav to make kiddush then, which is a machlokes (see above answer), and i guess chabad holds that u dont have 2. Nov 8, 2013 at 1:05

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