Bava metza 83b:

Rabbi Elazar brebbi Shimon is afraid that he may have wrongfully caused someone to be hanged, but is reassured that the hanged and his son 'slept with a betrothed maiden on yom kippur'

Gittin 57a:

A story from Kfar Sekania in Egypt: grain became slightly more expensive, they investigated and found that 'a father and his son slept with a betrothed woman on yom kippur' they stoned them and the price returned to normal.

I was wondering if any one has any insights in to this phrase. It jumped out at me, as it has occurred twice while I have been learning. Is it literal? A saying? Is it the same occurrence? Rav Minyomi bar Chilkiyah, Rav Chilkiyah bar Tuvia, and Rav Huna bar Chiya, who discuss this tale in Gittin, all seem like amoraim since they have the title Rav and not rebbi, so they could be relating the events that led to the people discovering that Rabbi Elazar brebbi Shimon's culprit was in fact guilty. (After being stoned people were hanged, see Devarim 21:23.)

There are peculiar terms like this in the gemarah, like a 'bone for choking a mother in law', (gittin, 67b), or 'white geese', (also gittin, 73a), but rashi explains those (ibid).

Any thoughts greatly appreciated!

  • 1
    Somewhat similar language is used in Amos 2:7.
    – Ypnypn
    Commented Sep 19, 2014 at 18:07
  • @Ypnypn Rav Chaim Vital reported that a dybbuk made a similar claim about a colleague and his son, though about a גויה (quoted at the top of this page; in the part about the younger son, other versions of the account specify "הגויה").
    – Fred
    Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 5:52

1 Answer 1


Although I never learned the sugya in Gittin, I actually just got through learning the sugya in Bava Metzia. When I learned that story, I understood that story quite literally: the man was such a wicked person, he slept with someone on Yom Kippur. Not only that, but he slept with a Na'arah Ha'meorasah. (Both are assur on a d'Oraisa level, the former punishable by kares and the latter by sekilah.) And not only that, but he failed miserably in teaching his son to follow in the ways of the Torah, as he did the same two Aveiros! It seems very easy to fit the same explanation into the story in Gittin as well.

  • How do you know that sleeping with someone on Yom Kippur is punishable by kares?
    – fartgeek
    Commented Jan 23, 2023 at 15:05

You must log in to answer this question.