On Mon/Thu mornings between the קדיש associated with תחנון and taking out the תורה, why do Ashkenazi Siddurim typically print two versions of אֵ-ל אֶרֶךְ אַפַּיִם? One is usually called "מנהג אשכנז" and the other "מנהג פולין".


1 Answer 1


According to Machzor Vitri the Shliach Tzibbur says ......אל ארך אפים ורב חסד ואמת and the congregation responds with ......אל ארך אפים מלא רחמים. This is done immediately prior to opening the Ark for the reading of the Torah. This would indicate that the placement did not change. However the question remains why do we say only one or the other.

  • I'm sorry if my sidebar was confusing. I meant the association with its surrounding prayer elements has changed, not that it has been moved to a different place. even so, I'm not sure how this answers the question. Unless you took my question to mean narrowlly, why do two versions exist? I meant, why are two versions printed side by side for us, apparently, to choose which one to say?
    – Seth J
    Commented Jul 30, 2013 at 22:34
  • @SethJ: I am not sure what you mean by "the association with its surrounding prayer elements has changed". My answer is showing that originally version 1 was said by the Chazzan and version 2 was the response of the congregation. This would be similar to other instances where the congregation responds to the Chazan with different words. Think Yehalelu.. when returning the Sefer Torah and the congregation responds Hodo.. - as I indicated in my answer the question remains why we currently say only one or the other, which may be an error that has happened over time unless one has a better answer. Commented Jul 31, 2013 at 14:39
  • I'll revise the question to remove the sidebar. I just meant that the linked thread indicates that it used to be under the Tahanun "heading", and now it's under the "Torah Reading" heading in at least Artscroll.
    – Seth J
    Commented Jul 31, 2013 at 15:34
  • In the GGBH, both are said by all. Commented Oct 16, 2017 at 21:23

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