The Father (not frum) of a Baal Teshuva asked his son for a loan. The son agreed to give his Father the loan on condition that he starts to keep Shabbos. Is this a problem of ribis?
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Related?: meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/a/314– msh210 ♦Commented Oct 3, 2012 at 6:53
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@msh210 This is a theoretical shailo which hopefully the answer will provide some insight in general into dinei ribis.– YehoshuaCommented Oct 3, 2012 at 8:45
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2 Answers
Without getting involved whether telling him to keep shabbos is considered ribis or not, they problem may not even start.
The שו׳׳ע יו׳׳ד סי׳ קנ׳׳ט talks about lending money with ריבית to goyim and to non religious jews. It is מותר to lend money to a מומר (non-religious jew) with ריבית , one reason is because ריבית is only אסור when dealing with "אחיך" and they are not considered your אחיך anymore. The question becomes whether the father in this case is considered a מומר or not. Perhaps if he didn't grow up religious then he's considered a תינוק שנשבה
who you would not be allowed to take ribis from. Although, if someone lives around frum jews and they still choose not to be religious, they're considered a מומר.
This is not a psak... I personally would be afraid of ever stipulating a condition to a loan to anyone because ריבית קצוצה is very serious, and the sugya of mumar has a lot of different shitas.
The fact that keeping shabbos is something he's supposed to do anyways, may make it not considered ריבית.
Ribis is only אסור when it comes from the borrower and is payed to the lender (שו׳׳ע יו׳׳ד סי׳ ק׳׳ס). In this case the father keeping shabbos is not something thats "going to" the lender.
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Welcome to Mi Yodeya Eliyahu! Thanks for the answer. While no one is asking you to render a pesaq, quoting some relevant sources about the definition of meshumad, particularly as it relates to the laws of usury would improve this post.– mevaqeshCommented Jul 18, 2017 at 2:54
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You're ignoring the Be'er Heitev who quotes the Shach who brings the Gaonim that say - ובתשובת הגאונים איתא דאם הוא מומר דשביק היתרא ואכיל איסורא אז הוא מותר אבל במומר לתיאבון אסור עכ''ל ומ''מ יש להחמיר - few irreligious people (especially those who would keep Shabbos in order to get a loan) would be of the "davka take the non-Kosher food" type. Commented Jul 18, 2017 at 14:25
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@DannySchoemann In this case the father is mechalel shabbos openly i think that automatically makees him a mumar lehachis. I''ll look for the source.. Commented Jul 18, 2017 at 16:49
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@Eliyahu - where do you see the father is mechalel shabbos openly in the question which simply states "The Father (not frum) of a Baal Teshuva asked his son for a loan. The son agreed to give his Father the loan on condition that he starts to keep Shabbos. Is this a problem of ribis?" Commented Jul 19, 2017 at 12:24
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A similar question was asked by a Kiruv organization activist. May he promise someone a loan with the condition that he keep Shabbos?
I heard from my Rebbe Rav Pinchos Vind Shlita (author of Bris Pinchas and other ribbis related works) that if the activist has a vested interest or benefit in the borrower keeping Shabbos, then it would be forbidden for him to make this a condition to his giving the loan, since then it would be considered that the borrower benefited the lender in addition to his repayment of the loan and this would constitute ribbis.
answered Apr 25, 2018 at 0:34
