Many (most?) rishonim, with the notable exception of the Rabbeinu Tam, hold that if there is no wine (or if you prefer bread) then you can make kiddush, on Shabbos/Yom Tov evening, with bread.

At what point in the text of kiddush do you wash? Before the whole thing? Right before or right after "Savri Maranan"?

If you wash too early, would the text of kiddush be a hefsek? What about the parts that some say before kiddush? ("Mizmor", "askinu".)

  • 2
    Judging by the people who regularly wash before saying kidush, even when they are using wine, combined with the fact that there is nothing to mafsik between washing and touching bread (just a concern of hesech hada'as because one can't trust his hands) I see no reason that one wouldn't wash before the whole process, askinu and all.
    – WAF
    May 6, 2012 at 13:40
  • BTW It seems that there are three out of four reasons for saying "savri" which are specific to wine. (see here) May 6, 2012 at 15:57
  • People say Mizmor before the night kiddush? I thought that was only a day thing. Which kiddush are you asking about?
    – Double AA
    May 6, 2012 at 17:01
  • @DoubleAA Nusach Ari has "Mizmor L'Dovid", "Da hi se'udasah" and "Askinu" before Yom Hashishi. Also, I'm asking about every kiddush. I imagine there's a general rule that can apply to all of them, but I haven't found it yet.
    – HodofHod
    May 6, 2012 at 17:37
  • @AvrohomYitzchok With the exception of the first reason, all those reasons could just as easily apply to bread. Just replace "drink" and "wine", with "eat" and "bread".
    – HodofHod
    May 6, 2012 at 17:40

1 Answer 1


The Rashbam (Pesachim 106b sv DeChaviva) strongly implies that one says VaYechulu just before HaMotzi, presumably with the washing done before hand.

The Aruch HaShulchan rules in 271:32 that Vayechulu can be said between washing and HaMotzi of kiddush as it is similar to the proverbial "pass the salt" which is permitted (per OC 167). This reasoning would presumably apply to any later additions to kiddush which are part of the set nusach.

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