Why, in Israel, do they get rid of ותן טל ומתר in barech aleinu but then add מוריד הטל in ata gibor? If it's the end of the season for טל (which, maybe i'm wrong, but I don't think there an end to that one) then stop saying טל. If it's not the end then leave it in both places. I know they get rid of "מטר" because it's the end of the rainy season, but why can't they still say "ותן טל לברכה..."?

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    Your question also applies to all nusach sefard in Chu"l.
    – Double AA
    Apr 12, 2012 at 17:46
  • I think this might be addressed in the first few pages of Masechet Ta'anit. Something about two kinds of Tal IIRC Apr 12, 2012 at 18:14
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    FYI nusach edot hammizrach mentions tal in barechenu (טללי רצון ברכה ונדבה...) Apr 12, 2012 at 18:16
  • @BaalShemotTovot Indeed classically people either said Tal in both places or neither. Saying it in only one is a modern phenomenon, which seems to contradict the Talmud (Ta'anit 4b)
    – Double AA
    Nov 18, 2016 at 15:21

1 Answer 1


Tzlosa D'Avraham (by R. Avraham of Chechanov) suggests the following:

The Ashkenazic minhag, to not mention dew at all, is based on an analysis of Taanis 3b, where it is implied that only after the fact do we not make a person repeat Shemoneh Esreh if he said it during the summer, but that ideally one should not do so. The reason behind this is that, as the Gemara notes on the previous amud, "dew never ceases" and therefore it is inappropriate to praise Hashem as its provider. [What that means - on the contrary, I would think that this should make us praise Him for it all the more? - I don't know.]

However, this creates a potential problem during the winter, because if one forgot משיב הרוח ומוריד הגשם and also didn't say מוריד הטל, he'll have to repeat Shemoneh Esreh.

The compromise, then, is to indeed say the latter during the summer (so that even during the winter a person will be apt to say one or the other phrase), but to punctuate the tes with a kamatz so as to make it effectively the end of the sentence, thus making it refer back to the previous phrase - מחיה מתים אתה רב להושיע - and hence not to the daily dew but to the special dew that Hashem will use to resurrect the dead.

  • Hmmm... So could that be the source of morid haGAshem?
    – Double AA
    Apr 12, 2012 at 19:50
  • @DoubleAA: In the Chabad nusach (which is what Tzlosa D'Avraham is referencing) it's haGEshem, and that was the older Nusach Ashkenaz too. R. Avraham (on the page before the one I linked) mentions the version with segol but rejects it, because in fact the phrase משיב הרוח ומוריד הגשם is supposed to be linked with what follows: through His providing rain, Hashem sustains all life.
    – Alex
    Apr 13, 2012 at 0:31

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