When the first Seder falls on Motzei Shabbas, Ta'anit Bechorot is pushed back to Thursday. Why does it stay on Friday when Pesach falls out on Shabbas?

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    The first seder this year isn't on motzei shabbat. Commented Apr 3, 2012 at 19:30
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    @MonicaCellio I think he is comparing the ruling from that kind of year to this year.
    – Double AA
    Commented Apr 3, 2012 at 19:47
  • IIRC the meiri holds that even when the first seder is saturday night, the fast is still on friday.
    – Double AA
    Commented Apr 3, 2012 at 20:26
  • @DoubleAA, oh, that makes sense, thanks. And thanks to GershonGold for editing to clarify. Commented Apr 3, 2012 at 20:27

2 Answers 2


Aruch HaShulchan 470:4 says that once it was pushed off we push it off more in order not to go into Shabbos hungry. דהואיל ואידחי – אידחי

  • ...whereas if it falls out on Shabbos...?
    – Seth J
    Commented Apr 3, 2012 at 20:52
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    @SethJ: we don't move fasts just because they fall on Friday (as a practical matter, though, the only other one where that can happen nowadays is the 10th of Teves). If it's going to coincide with Shabbos and have to be moved, then as long as we're doing so, we can make it not occur on Friday; but if it lands there in the first place, there's no justification for moving it ("not going into Shabbos hungry" isn't reason enough in itself).
    – Alex
    Commented Apr 3, 2012 at 21:21
  • I think you have completely misread the Aruch HaShulchan. (1) He is talking about the case of Pesach on Sunday, and some say, since the fast is pushed off, it is cancelled (which is the phrase you misunderstood in your quote -- see also the Mishneh Berurah 470:7.) But he doesn't agree and the fast is held on Thursday. Then he goes on to say that we don't fast on Friday, but it is not clear whether he means just in the case of Pesach on Sunday or also on Shabbos. So it is not clear whether the Aruch HaShulchan agrees with the Mishneh Berurah that the fast this year is Fri, or perhaps it is Thur
    – Curiouser
    Commented Apr 3, 2012 at 21:22
  • @Alex: I think it is plausible that the Aruch HaShulchan holds that taanis bechoris this year should be on Thursday. He disagrees with the Magen Avraham in OH 417 and I think also disagrees in 470. So yes, there are some poskim who do think fasts should be moved. See also the Birkei Yosef in 686:5 and the Meiri he quotes, which shows that there is indeed justification for moving a fast away from Friday
    – Curiouser
    Commented Apr 3, 2012 at 21:25
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    @Curiouser: I don't think your inference from the Aruch HaShulchan's remark is warranted. See Magid Mishneh (Hil. Ta'aniyos, 5:5), who explicitly rules that Ta'anis Esther is not rescheduled when the 13th of Adar falls on Erev Shabbos, despite the fact that he makes almost exactly the same comment as the Aruch HaShulchan (אין מתענין בערב שבת...). (The Magid Mishneh was a much earlier posek, and the Aruch HaShulchan possibly structured his own remark based upon him).
    – Fred
    Commented Apr 6, 2012 at 0:00

There is a big machlokes about whether a fast day can be on Friday (with the exception of the 4 Fasts for the Temple which are divrei kabalah and thus remained fixed).

This machlokes is expressed most clearly in the context of Taanis Esther when Purim falls on Sunday. The Meiri writes that one side says the fast should be on Friday (based on a gemara in Eiruvin), whereas others say the fast should be on Thursday (based on megillas taanis). This dispute shows up in the Birkei Yosef in 686:5, and in a machlokes between the Magen Avraham and Aruch HaShulchan in OH 417, and other places. Sources for this dispute go back even to the Tanchuma and Eicha Rabbah.

In terms of your specific issue, it is not so clear that the Aruch HaShulchan agrees with the Mishneh Berurah that taanis bechoros can be on Friday. It is plausible that he holds it should be moved to Thursday, just like the fast on erev Rosh Chodesh.

בית הבחירה למאירי מסכת מגילה דף ב עמוד א

וכן בשאלתות פירשו יום הכניסה יום התענית שהיו מתכנסין בעריהם ושמא תאמר תינח בי"ג אבל י"ב וי"א היאך היו מקדימין בהם פרשוה כשחל י"ד באחד בשבת שיש מתענין בע"ש והרי י"ב ויש שמקדימין לחמישי בשבת והרי י"א ועיקר מחלוקתם הוא שאותם שמקדימין לחמישי בשבת אוסרי' להתענות בערב שבת ממה שאמרו במגלת תענית כל שנשבע להתענות בערב שבת הרי זה שבועת שוא מקצת ערב שבת שבת מקצת ערב יום טוב יום טוב ואלו שמתירין מתירין ממה שאמרו במס' עירובין מ' ב' הלכה יתענה ומשלים כמ"ש בסוף שני של תענית ‎

  • Are you implying that were Tisha Bav to fall on Friday it would be nidche?
    – Double AA
    Commented Apr 3, 2012 at 22:04
  • As I mentioned in the beginning, the 4 Fasts are different, because they are not purely d'rabbanan, but rather divrei kabalah. But I also pointed out that the only one which practically can occur, has a special limmud that we would fast even on Shabbos itself. I was trying to emphasis how the 4 fasts are not pushed off. Sorry if you found that confusing.
    – Curiouser
    Commented Apr 3, 2012 at 22:07
  • @DoubleAA I edited the post to delete the confusing reference.
    – Curiouser
    Commented Apr 3, 2012 at 22:10
  • (That wasn't the only thing confusing.) Also, it is just wrong. That opinion (avudraham) is rejected lehalacha. See Beit yosef OC 550. if 10 tevet fell on shabbat we would not fast.
    – Double AA
    Commented Apr 3, 2012 at 22:13
  • @DoubleAA: To say that we reject it l'halacha is not the same as saying "it is just wrong". I meant precisely what the Aruch HaShulchan writes in 549:2, that it has a special limmud to show how important it is, and that some say we would even fast on Shabbos, but I certainly didn't mean to imply that we pasken that way, as the Aruch HaShulchan himself makes quite clear. The fact that is has a special limmud doesn't mean that we apply the limmud.
    – Curiouser
    Commented Apr 3, 2012 at 22:15

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