I've noticed that in the Gemara you often see a pattern where two people are discussing an issue in front of an Amorah (e.g R' Yirmiyah) while he was asleep. After their discussion he wakes up and gives his opinion. Is there any solid source for why the Amoraim would be conducting a discussion in such a manner?
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6Can you please cite one such instance?– Baal Shemot TovotCommented Apr 1, 2012 at 5:18
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3...or, better yet, several?– msh210 ♦Commented Apr 1, 2012 at 6:21
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5It's actually not just R. Yirmiyah. In a search, I find three times where this is said about him (Shabbos 63b, Nedarim 29b-30a and Gittin 11b), but there's also one each about R. Yochanan (Shabbos 145b), R. Idi bar Avin (Pesachim 35a) and Rava (Bava Basra 16b).– AlexCommented Apr 1, 2012 at 14:08
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1Good stuff @Alex. I edited to reflect that. Also, this shouldn't be tagged as Agada, part of the oddity here is that this is found in halachic areas of the Gemara.– Yaakov KupermanCommented Apr 1, 2012 at 14:44
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2Also, I didn't realize there was a 'sleep' tag. Thats awesome.– Yaakov KupermanCommented Apr 1, 2012 at 14:44
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4 Answers
No sources that I know of, but a couple of possibilities:
It shows how devoted these students were to their teacher - they wanted to be able to study from him at all hours (and, if he wasn't up to teaching, they'd at least be able to review what they had already learned).
Conversely, it shows how devoted the teacher was, that he'd be sitting and teaching his students even to the point of exhaustion and needing a short nap.
In Moed Katan 28a the term מנמנם is used to mean "near death." Conceivably, then, in at least some of these cases the meaning is the same - that R. Yirmiyah or R. Yochanan or whoever was about to draw his last breath but still rallied his energies to teach his students one final lesson.
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Re: 3, I think that it's more of a euphemism (like Nach Nafshei (rested his soul) -> Pass Away so Menamnem (almost asleep) -> almost dead). Commented Apr 1, 2012 at 23:49
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#3 makes a lot of sense to me. Why stress that the Rabbi was sleeping? Makes more sense to stress that he was near death. Commented Apr 2, 2012 at 0:57
The word מְנַמְנֵם means dozing, rather than sleeping. In a long day, people may occasionally take a nap, even while the learning goes on. But the teacher here isn't fully asleep, because he is aware of their discussion and ultimately weighs in. See Shabbat 63b as an example.
The reason for mentioning the situation is to explain the dynamics of the ensuing discussion. If the teacher is awake, then he would directly teach them, or they would directly ask them. Since the teacher is unavailable, they can each develop their theories, with evidence to back it up. Finally, the teacher will weigh in to support or reject the ideas which developed.
This is a different dynamic than merely two contemporaries discussing something; or a teacher saying something, and the student responding; or other interactions which arise, where typically it proceeds in chronological order, from one scholastic generation to the next.
B"H As mentioned in the Talmud being asleep is a "taste of death" because the soul is returned to הקב"ה while sleeping and only connected through a little "thread" to the resting body. Therefore, the students in order to receive "high answers" were learning in front of their master while he was sleeping and thereby their master was hearing their words while sleeping, learning with them in Heaven and at the same time receiving from The Zaddikim in Heaven who also learn there. After the sleep he awoke and gave a wonderful Shiur b"H.
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3Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please edit to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers in the help center.– Edward BCommented Jun 10 at 11:16
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1Welcome to Mi Yodeya @רחל תימן looking forward to learning with you as part of our community. It is always more helpful to include citations to sources where possible.– Edward BCommented Jun 10 at 11:18
Rav Shlomo Volbe wrote that they actually were sleeping. Their learning had become such an integral part of their being that they would give an entire shiur while sleeping in bed.
