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Shalom to all. I am not sure how to pronounce the following word, when it comes up in prayer, (e.g. in Tehillim 130): שׁוֹמְרִים

On one hand I have learned that sheva after big vowels(patach, sere...) is independent. Based on this the pronunciation would be shoMErim.

On another hand I heard from some people reading this word as shoMrim. With silent sheva. Which is correct? Please explain. Is there exceptions to the rule? Ty

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  • A common grammatical mistake in that verse is to put the major pause on לַ֝בֹּ֗קֶר instead of on לַאדֹנָ֑י
    – Double AA
    Commented Aug 28 at 14:58
  • Tangential, but patach is not generally classified as a long vowel.
    – Joel K
    Commented Aug 28 at 15:09
  • The rules for sheva are here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shva Commented Aug 28 at 16:50
  • Joel can u explain pl
    – Angie
    Commented Aug 29 at 17:42

2 Answers 2

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It’s a Shva na`.

Many people, especially in certain Ashkenazic communities, ignore the rules of Shva. Shva isn’t such an important vowel, so this isn’t really problematic, but it’s not accurate either.

(Note: There is a scholarly opinion that this kind of Shva was silent in the Tiberian Masoretic tradition. Even if that’s was case, we don’t follow that rule today, so it’s irrelevant).

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    Who said "we don’t follow that rule today"?
    – Double AA
    Commented Aug 28 at 14:59
  • @DoubleAA Every Tikkun/Chumash I’ve opened that’s either marked vocalic Shva or provided a list of rules for when Shva is vocalic. Commented Aug 28 at 15:00
  • As you noted, many people get these things wrong.
    – Double AA
    Commented Aug 28 at 15:07
  • @DoubleAA I meant the normal people who aren’t taught this stuff, not Hebrew linguists and scholars who learn it. (At least, not any I’m aware of). Commented Aug 28 at 15:16
  • I don't understand your comment. Wouldn't you agree that among people who have studied the matter, some would say it's na and some would say it's nach, and most people haven't a clue and just make it up or follow what they found in some text?
    – Double AA
    Commented Aug 28 at 15:22
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It's a bit complicated because sometimes rules conflict, for example שַׁרְבִיט, theres one rule that shva followed by a בּ is vocal after ב is silant, but usually a shva that closed patach is silent so this case is complicated, or I'm a case like מַלְכֵי vs מַלְכִּי, or in וַתְּכַבֵּד is the תּ pronounced because it has a dagash (another rule is that shva with dagesh is vocal) or because the כ is raphe it should be silent. In your case probably is vocal because it's after a long vowel. In a shava after the qamets in שָׁ֫מְרוּ there seems to be an argument if silent or pronounced, if this qamets is considered long

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  • Welcome to MiYodeya Josh and thanks for this first answer. Since MY is different from other sites you might be used to, see here for a guide which might help understand the site. Great to have you learn with us!
    – mbloch
    Commented Sep 6 at 3:11
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    Not sure what’s uncertain about ותכבד? If the tav had a sheva nach then wouldn’t you expect the kaf to take a dagesh?
    – Joel K
    Commented Sep 6 at 5:07
  • From כ rapha you see that ת is not vocal shava but there's a dagesh in the ת showing that it is pronounced. You have to say the the תּ is not doubled, and even if it has a dagash from the ו (like all forms) it'll have to be rejected
    – Josh
    Commented Sep 6 at 7:43

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