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I'm currently in a discussion with a non-smicha guy who's publicly teaching these claims that the Rambam Absolutely and Halachically rejects the entire concept of the Messiah son of Yosef just because he doesn't mention him at all in Hilchos Melachim. Does this make any sense?

The clear question is: Do the actual Words of Rambam in Hilchos Melachem 11 Rule as Matter of Halachah, that the Moshiach ben Yosef concept Does Not Exist? A simple YES or NO answer with the logic and/or sources backing it would be preferable.

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  • The real question is what is the actual source of Moshiach Ben Yosef? Commented May 12 at 23:37
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    @Awtsmoos--בִּשְׁלָמָא לְמַאן דְּאָמַר עַל מָשִׁיחַ בֶּן יוֹסֵף שֶׁנֶּהֱרַג, הַיְינוּ דִּכְתִיב: ״וְהִבִּיטוּ אֵלַי אֵת אֲשֶׁר דָּקָרוּ וְסָפְדוּ עָלָיו כְּמִסְפֵּד עַל הַיָּחִיד״. אֶלָּא לְמַאן דְּאָמַר עַל יֵצֶר הָרַע שֶׁנֶּהֱרַג — הַאי הֶסְפֵּידָא בָּעֵי לְמֶעְבַּד? שִׂמְחָה בָּעֵי לְמֶעְבַּד! אַמַּאי בָּכוּ? Sukkah 52a:3
    – MosheSF
    Commented May 12 at 23:45
  • @Awtsmoos--״וַיַּרְאֵנִי ה׳ אַרְבָּעָה חָרָשִׁים״, מַאן נִינְהוּ אַרְבָּעָה חָרָשִׁים? אָמַר עצמותרַב חָנָא בַּר בִּיזְנָא אָמַר רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן חֲסִידָא: מָשִׁיחַ בֶּן דָּוִד, וּמָשִׁיחַ בֶּן יוֹסֵף, וְאֵלִיָּהוּ, וְכֹהֵן צֶדֶק. מֵתִיב רַב שֵׁשֶׁת: אִי הָכִי, הַיְינוּ דִּכְתִיב: ״וַיֹּאמֶר אֵלַי אֵלֶּה הַקְּרָנוֹת אֲשֶׁר זֵרוּ אֶת יְהוּדָה״, הָנֵי לְשׁוּבָה אָתוּ! Sukkah 52b:11
    – MosheSF
    Commented May 12 at 23:47
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    I'd assume Rambam would tell you that it's not a critical piece of our belief. Not "doesn't exist", but rather "need not exist."
    – Shalom
    Commented May 13 at 0:04
  • Perhaps proof that @Shalom is correct comes from the fact that this is a halachic work, and the halacha in 11:1 seems to be "this is what one should believe and whoever denies etc". He didn't see any halacha in belief in Moshiach Ben Yosef, nor any halachot that said Moshiach should fulfil (2), or halachot for how to identify him (3-4)
    – Rabbi Kaii
    Commented May 13 at 0:23

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There is no obvious reason to assume Rambam rules that Moshiach Ben Yosef doesn't exist from his lack of mention. The Rambam himself states that one shouldn't over-contemplate the unfolding of the redemption, as we don't know much. In this halachic work, he only records four halachos. The first collects all of the things we must and must not believe about Moshiach Ben David (and there is no mention of M"BY for either), the second is one of the halachot that he will follow, and 3-4 are halachot on how to identify Moshiach Ben David.

The tradition we have about Moshiach Ben Yosef is very mixed and unclear. It appears to be a tradition of Chazal, and is not a certainty. Some hold he will only need to come if we need him (for teshuva). So Rambam doesn't see any halachot regarding him so therefore doesn't mention him in his halachic work.

So no, Rambam doesn't seem to hold that he will NOT come. Just we don't have any halachot regarding him. This Chabad page by R Schochet presumes that Rambam didn't mention him due to these uncertainties, and brings all the various opinions by other Rishonim.

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    I love the citation and link to the article from Rabbi J. Immanuel Schochet, A”H. I remember him well. But to understand what he is writing, you must take it in the context of the written letters from the Rebbe Rashab (Igrot Kodesh vol. 1, letter 130) & the Rebbe (Igrot Kodesh, vol. 2, letter 200 to Elchonon HaKohen Cohen). Perhaps Rabbi Schochet was not familiar with these two letters. Remember, by Chabad, Igrot Kodesh are considered the תורה שבכתב of Chassidut, meaning not as heard and “understood” by a 3rd party. But written word for word, by each Rebbe. Commented May 15 at 11:13
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The simple answer is no.

The Lubavitcher Rebbe wrote a letter about this in 5704 which was printed many years later in the first edition of the Kuntress Torato Shel Moshiach.

In that letter, the Rebbe brought many of the citations brought by Rambam from Shas related to different activities that Moshiach is engaged in and how they fall out chronologically. He also demonstrated with related sources that some pertained to Moshiach ben Yosef and some pertained to Moshiach ben David.

The Rebbe then noted that in the Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Melachim, Rambam does not mention explicitly the terms Moshiach ben Yosef or Moshiach ben David, but uses the innovative terms of Presumed to be Moshiach and Moshiach with certainty.

The Rebbe points out that this is in spite of the fact that Rambam was certainly familiar with these traditional distinctions.

At the conclusion of that letter, the Rebbe writes that from this it is concluded that the view of Rambam is that Moshiach ben Yosef and Moshiach ben David are speaking of a single individual.

For what it is worth, this conclusion of the Rebbe also seems to be supported by the plain meaning from the Prophet Yechezkel 37:15-28 that is read as the Haftorah to parshat VaYigash.

For more detailed discussion of this subject, see the following: https://judaism.stackexchange.com/a/59634/7303

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As there is no mention of Moshiach ben Yosef in any of Rambam's writings (to the best of my knowledge) I think it is reasonable to conclude that he did not subscribe to that tradition. He mentions the idea of two Meshichim in Melachim 11:1 however he says that one refers to David and the other to his descendant—King Moshiach. In 12:2 he says that it seems that a Navi—not Moshiach—will come to straighten out the Jews prior to Moshiachs arrival. It is axiomatic to Rambam that Moshiach is descended from David (via Shelomo specifically), ostensibly negating a Moshiach from any other Shevet. Additionally, Rambam's schema of what this Navi and Moshiach will do seems to obviate the need for anyone else.

As far as these details go bear in mind Rambam's own words in 12:2:

All these and similar matters cannot be definitely known by man until they occur for these matters are undefined in the prophets' words and even the wise men have no established tradition regarding these matters except their own interpretation of the verses. Therefore, there is a controversy among them regarding these matters. Regardless of the debate concerning these questions, neither the order of the occurrence of these events or their precise detail are among the fundamental principles of the faith. A person should not occupy himself with the Aggadot and homiletics concerning these and similar matters, nor should he consider them as essentials, for study of them will neither bring fear or love of God.

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  • I also did a search in a few of the main works of Rambam and couldn't find any mention. Not that my search was perfect.
    – Rabbi Kaii
    Commented May 14 at 23:53

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