The quoted Tanna says that he heard something from ministering angels (Nedarim 20a). Over the page, it says:

אמר אמימר: מאן מלאכי השרת — רבנן, דאי תימא מלאכי השרת ממש, אמאי אמר רבי יוחנן אין הלכה כיוחנן בן דהבאי? הא אינהו בקיאי בצורת הולד טפי!‏

Ameimar said who are these ministering angels? The Rabbis, because if they were really ministering angels, why did Rabbi Yochanan say the halacha is not like Yochanan ben Dehavai? [After all, ministering angels] are better informed about the forming of a fetus.

Two questions:

Nowadays, it is considered arrogant to ask one's ministering angels to wait outside when we go into the bathroom, although ostensibly that should be halacha. This case seems worse - he has recorded a teaching in his name that seems to imply he is holy enough to actually speak to and learn from his ministering angels, and it wasn't even true! Is there any commentary on that?

  • A) "Nowadays, it is considered arrogant... This case seems worse" 2 points, 1 is these are different time periods, what was not arrogant then may be arrogant now. 2 it doesn't say that he asked or stated anything to the malakhim, they reportedly said something to him. B) what's the source for "and it wasn't even true"? C) On your bonus... presumably the statement about malakhim is not offering pesaq, it is just reporting מציאות. The malakhim are not reported to have had a disposition about what the halakhah should be. Feb 27 at 14:20
  • A) 1. Fair enough, could be good to corroberate that with the full explanation, if true. 2. The arrogance comes from "I have ministering angels", which ostensibly would apply even in this case B) Ameimar, as per the quote @Deuteronomy, which also means that C) had it been angels, it would have been psak
    – Rabbi Kaii
    Feb 27 at 15:19
  • Ahh, I understood you to be saying that the content of what he reported was not true - not that they were "malakhei hashareth" was not literally true (a point which weakens the premise of your question I would think) Feb 27 at 15:27
  • @Deuteronomy indeed, not my strongest question, but there is what to ask because of how long after him Ameimar lived.
    – Rabbi Kaii
    Feb 27 at 15:42
  • On "had it been angels, it would have been psak" how so? The malakhei hashareth simply stated that if one does x then y is the result - they do not say "one ought not do x"... how is that issuing pesaq? For example, a scientist studies the matter of smoking and concludes that it is injurious to health and can lead to cancer... a legalist then takes this conclusion and argues that smoking should be forbidden. Did the scientist issue a legal opinion, or merely a medical one? Feb 27 at 18:13


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