3

What is the situation with royal converts, i.e., converts who come from royal blood or are of royal relatives? Are they still royal? Do we have to stand for them as with any royal, do we not have to stand, do they take on the role of a regular jewish convert that has to STILL respect and honor to a degree, his past family.

In the case of Onkalos, and his Family, and others as well.

13
  • 2
    Upvoted this. Interesting question, hopefully someone with relevant knowledge can answer.
    – setszu
    Sep 13, 2023 at 15:42
  • 5
    but the status of royalty isn't a halachic status. The conversion would make the convert unrelated halachically. Whether civil law cares about a person's religious status when deciding heirship isn't a question of Judaism. If the convert is crowned then we defer as we would to any civil king (I assume).
    – rosends
    Sep 13, 2023 at 16:08
  • 3
    There is no halachic requirement to stand for "blue bloods" or heads of state.
    – N.T.
    Sep 13, 2023 at 17:29
  • 1
    @N.T. there's the blessing on royalty
    – Shababnik
    Sep 13, 2023 at 18:09
  • 2
    "do we have to stand for them as with any royal" what is the source for this? where do you see that we are obligated to stand before royalty? Sep 13, 2023 at 22:33

1 Answer 1

0

Basically, it shouldn't matter. If the local population treats this person like a royal, then you should a.) show respect accordingly, to get along better with the locals; and b.) perhaps even make an effort to see how royalty is treated. (The latter is an interesting halachic point for some other time.) Both of those points are about de facto, who is regarded as king. The person's technical halachic lineage really shouldn't matter.

Take the eldest son of the Last Shah of Iran. He's a Pahlavi, he lives in Virginia. There is no halacha that says "respect all Pahlavis." The halacha says "respect whoever the locals say should be respected!"

If we went with strict halachic definitions of lineage, for instance, then His Majesty Charles III is a Mountbatten (his father's side), not a Windsor (his mother's side), as non-Jews' lineage is strictly patrilineal. The royal family are the Windsors. Does that make him any less king? Absolutely not! If the UK says he's the king, then he's the king!

The one interesting case that would come up is what bracha you say upon seeing them. A non-Jewish head of state warrants the blessing "[G-d, who] gave of His honor to flesh and blood." A Jewish head of state gets "[G-d, who] shared some of His honor with those who revere Him." The halacha here does note that the latter phrasing applies to any observant, G-d fearing Jew who is a head of state. It doesn't matter that their state is nowhere near Israel, nor that their subjects are mostly non-Jewish. (E.g. in some alternate reality where Joe Lieberman became the US President.) But on this last point, the blessing is reserved for the head of state, so a prince or the like wouldn't trigger it regardless.

6
  • Unless they're the head of a princedom @Shalom.
    – הראל
    Sep 14, 2023 at 19:33
  • @הראל fair enough, it depends on the power they wield. "Can they lawfully execute someone, or spare them from the death penalty" is a sufficient barometer (though probably not a necessary one).
    – Shalom
    Sep 15, 2023 at 0:24
  • @Shalom, So if a cousin of Prince Williams, we don't treat them as such even though they don't have the same respects? The question is really asking about blue blood, do we treat blue blood any different once they convert.
    – Gabriel
    Sep 15, 2023 at 14:24
  • @shalom, though you are saying no, its irrelevant, we only treat the kings and queens as such respect, not any blue blood because they have a Royal gene, So we don't give respect to the house of royalty, just the king and queen.
    – Gabriel
    Sep 15, 2023 at 14:27
  • 2
    @Shalom, Recently read an article from chabad, In short, rabbi liadi said to the tzar, when in presence of royalty down below we stand as they are also royalty above. And how would you know, your body would start to shake a bit.
    – Gabriel
    Sep 15, 2023 at 14:32

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .