# Why does Rav Huna state in Sukkah 2b that the dispute between the Tanna Kamma and Rebbi Yehuda is at exactly 4×4 amos, rather than 4×4 amos and less?

In regards to the argument between the Tanna Kamma and Rebbi Yehuda in Masechta Sukkah, Mishnah 2a regarding the 20 amos height limitation of a Sukkah, Rav Huna's dictum in the name of Rav is stated on Sukkah 2b as being an argument that is only at 4x4 amos. However, further down on the same page it states דכולי עלמא הכשר סוכה ראשו ורובו ושולחנו, indicating that he permits a sukkah as small as ראשו ורובו ושולחנו. Therefore, why is the argument stated as one that is at exactly 4x4, rather than 4×4 amos and less?

Based on the poskim (my sefer does not list them) that hold that Rav Huna is establishing a 1:5 ratio the following answer and illustration is offered up for peer review.

The reason for this is that a shade ratio of 1:5 (length to height) is a diagonal line reaching 20 amos in height at exactly 4×4 amos. This means that if the dispute between the Tanna Kamma and Rebbi Yehuda was stated as being at 4×4 amos and less the reader would have thought that if the sukkah was merely 20 amos in height or less it would be valid according to the opinions of the Tanna Kamma and Rebbi Yehuda. But this is not the case for either of their opinions.

In regards to the Tanna Kamma’s opinion, examples can be found of how a sukkah such as one that is 2×2 amos can be no higher than 10 amos in height and one of 3×3 amos can be no higher than 15 amos in height. And in regards Rebbi Yehuda’s opinion of the קבע of a sukkah, Rebbi Yehuda invalidates a temporary sukkah which is built less than 4×4 amos in length and which is at the same time 20 amos or lower in height. Therefore, the dispute must be described as being at exactly 4×4 amos. However, both the Tanna Kamma and Rebbi Yehuda permit a sukkah which is built less than 4×4 amos.

• With respect @user28988 - why do you keep asking loads of questions on masechta Sukkah only to then answer them yourself?
– Dov
Commented Apr 11, 2023 at 10:11
• These are questions that came up when reviewing masechta Sukkah over several years and that I could not find asked and for which I was unable to find a satisfactory answer. I am remote. The Q&A are an attempt to find the truth of Torah. I am now asking this wonderful community to peer review the questions for validity and review the tentative answers for flaws. If this is not viewed positively, I could delete what was posted. Please let me know. Best regards. Commented Apr 11, 2023 at 14:25
• This content appears to be copied without license or attribution from sukkah.home.blog. Please see judaism.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/75/… , and edit this answer to express the points necessary to address the question, in your own words. Commented Apr 17, 2023 at 15:14
• Thank you for the level care you take to make sure this forum is a great place for learning. The page is my working document of progress to date, which has been a slow and difficult task, though with much love and joy. I really need confirmation now as to whether I have learned correctly or not. That is why I'm here. Best Regards, Yonason. Commented Apr 18, 2023 at 1:48
• I don't believe this explanation fits with the gemara. The gemara seems to be saying that rav huna holds the argument between rabbi Yehuda and the chachamim (i.e. whether a sukka can be above 20 Amos or not), is between thw minimum size of a sukka and 4 amos- in these cases, rabbi yehuda would say even above 20 amos is muttar, and chachamim would say only up to 20 amos. Beyond 4 Amos, everyone agrees that it can be (seemingly unlimitedly) taller. Good question though! Commented Jan 13 at 19:42