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Would one be allowed to drink water between shkiah - dusk, and tzais - nightfall, on the first night of Pesach, being that you can’t make Kiddush then anyways, and if yes, what if it fell out on Shabbos?

Can we compare it to the morning before praying, when he is allowed to drink water, even though it’s really the time of obligation, only the person himself can’t make Kiddush until he prays?

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  • You can make kiddush then! You just can't fulfill your obligation in four cups (according to the minority opinion in rishonim whose opinion is generally followed)
    – Double AA
    Commented Mar 23, 2023 at 10:55
  • Wouldn’t that be a ברכה לבטלה?
    – שלום
    Commented Mar 23, 2023 at 13:16
  • Chas veshalom, no. It just messes with the standard order of the seder (since later you'll have to drink a first cup with no kiddush on it) so we don't do it unless you're a soldier or doctor or something where you won't have wine/matza available later at night. Then might as well fulfill your kiddush obligation when you can, and let pikuach nefesh etc. override the seder later on.
    – Double AA
    Commented Mar 23, 2023 at 13:17
  • True, but just because you’re allowed to make קידוש then - only בשעת הדחק - doesn’t prove that you can’t eat
    – שלום
    Commented Mar 23, 2023 at 13:37
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    @fulltimekollelguy also he doesn't say that, he says if you don't have wine or bread you should say kiddush without Hashem's name as a zeicher. It's not the real thing.
    – Heshy
    Commented Mar 23, 2023 at 20:05

1 Answer 1

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Bein Hashmshos is a period of uncertainty between day and night. Shekiya is the beginning of this period when the sun sets. From this time on there is an uncertainty whether one can make kiddush yet, we therefore, wait untll after three stars are visible before making Kiddush.

According to the SA, both men and women have the same obligation to make kiddush on Shabbos and Pesach, because they are both commanded to observe these holy days. Therefore, just as one cannot drink anything before kiddush on Shabbos, the same applies on Pesach.

As double AA pointed out, can one bring in pesach early like people do for Shabbos? Can one make kiddush after plag before Tzeitz? The SA says when it is dark then one should start. The Mishna Berura and Eshel Avraham both point out that one can only start the Seder and kiddush when it is night. Therefore one can only start when it is night and can't eat or drink before kiddush.

edit
Reb Meneshe Klein here seems to be more leninat and rule if there is a need one can drink.

In short

I think one would not be allowed to drink before Kiddush. (Obviously, a Rabbi must be consulted) unless under certain circumstances.

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  • The important part of this answer is "From this time on the Mitzvah of kiddush begins. One should only make kiddush though once it is dark." which is not only unsourced but (on its face) contradictory.
    – Double AA
    Commented Mar 23, 2023 at 11:57
  • Ok well it's still unsourced and I'm not convinced its true. Maybe we vadai can't say kiddush during safek night, and maybe a doubtful kiddush obligation is insufficient to generate a prohibition on eating
    – Double AA
    Commented Mar 23, 2023 at 12:18
  • @DoubleAA Thank you for pointing out to me where my answers were lacking. I don't know if i answered your points I will try and do more research Commented Mar 23, 2023 at 12:31

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