It says in Pirkei DeRabbi Eliezer 23 that Og swore to be Noach and his descendant's slave forever.

וימח את כל היקום אשר על פני האדמה חוץ מנח וכל אשר אתו בתבה שנאמר וישאר אך נח ואשר אתו בתבה וחוץ מעוג מלך הבשן שישב לו עץ אחד מן הסולמות של התיבה ונשבע לנח ולבניו שיהיה להם עבד עולם מה עשה נח נקב חור אח' בתיבה והיה מושיט לו מזונו בכל יום ויום ונשאר גם הוא שנ' כי רק עוג מלך הבשן

Do we see anywhere that Og actually served Noach? The next time he appears in the Torah (Breishis 14:5-13) is when the Rephaim are attacked in Ashtaros Karnayim by Amrophel and his allies, and the "palit", who Rashi identifies as Og, escapes. It sounds like the city of Ashtaros Karnayim was inhabited only by the giant Rephaim, who presumably were all descended from Og. How did they come to be living in their own city if they were slaves?

  • I don't understand the question in your final sentence. Just because person A is a slave for their own lifetime, it doesn't follow that A's descendants will also be slaves.
    – Zarka
    Commented Feb 1, 2023 at 17:14
  • In Torah law, the master owns the slave's children as well. Even if before the Torah was given, things were different, Og himself would still be a slave for life. So then my question would be slightly rephrased, "What was he doing in Ashtaros Karnayim together with his descendants, instead of serving the children of Noach?"
    – Learnmore
    Commented Feb 1, 2023 at 17:27
  • 1
    Clearly he escaped to Eretz Yisrael, and the law is that a slave who escapes to Eretz Yisrael shouldn't be returned to his master. I say this half-jokingly. More seriously, given that the land of the Rephaim is very far from Ararat, it is conceivable that he simply escaped. Evidently he only made that promise to survive (this is of course assuming that the midrash is p'shat history). However if you really want to go about it your way, perhaps he was living there as a kind of caretaker in the service of Shem, who was living in Jerusalem at that time. Maybe he oversaw things in transjordan.
    – Harel13
    Commented Feb 1, 2023 at 17:36
  • Personally, I think you expect too much of Og in terms of middot. Rashi or Chazal, can't remember, say that Og told Avraham about the war so he could steal Sarah when Avraham went away.
    – Harel13
    Commented Feb 1, 2023 at 17:36
  • That is a Rashi in Breishis 14:13 quoting Breishis Rabba 42:8. What he says is that Og was hoping Avraham would be killed, and he would marry Sara. So we don't see there that he was dishonest.
    – Learnmore
    Commented Feb 1, 2023 at 17:46

1 Answer 1


The Daas Zekeinim in Chayei Sarah 24:39 says there were two Ogs. One was Eliezer and the other was the famous one. Also Pirkei d’Rebbi Eliezer 16:14 says Eliezer was Og. Also, at the end of Mesechtos Sofrim it says that Eliezer was Og.

Maybe you could say that the slave that was Noachs was passed down to Avrohom, and the one in Breishis 14:5-13 is the other one who has no connection to Noach.

  • I am not sure that helps. The Da'as Zekainim there says that there were two Ogs. One who is synonymous with Eliezer and was a Tzadik who went to Gan Eden alive. The other one was a Rasha who Moshe killed. The gemara in Nidda 61a says that Og who escaped from the war and warned Avraham was the one who escaped the Mabul. It was this merit that caused Moshe to be scared of him.
    – Learnmore
    Commented Feb 1, 2023 at 21:35
  • Rashi there says because he ran to Eretz Yisroel. (There is a machlokes if the Mabul was in Eretz Yisroel or not). Therefore it would seem the slave Og aka Eliezer eved Avrohom held onto the תיבה, and the other Og survived by running to Eretz Yisroel. ! (See Mahrsha who says even according to the one who says Eretz Yisroel was affected in some way by the Mabul, since Og was big and strong he could have survived) Commented Feb 1, 2023 at 21:51
  • I think it's highly unlikely that there were two Ogs that survived the mabul. Rashi who says that he survived by going to Eretz Yisroel is going like R' Yochanan who says the mabul didn't go to E"Y. Therefore the Gemara in Zevachim that says that he survived by holding on to the teiva is going like Reish Lakish. Another problem with that is that Eliezer was descended from Cana'an and Og wasn't. According to the simple interpretation of the Da'as Zekainim there is no problem because the Eliezer who was called Og did not survive the mabul and was not one of the Rephaim.
    – Learnmore
    Commented Feb 1, 2023 at 22:01
  • Either way Rashi in Nidah is not a question because the Pirkei DeRabbi Eliezer you quoted is going according to the other opinion. Commented Feb 2, 2023 at 12:09

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .