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The Talmud reports the following view about Gentiles who live outside Israel:

דאמר רבי חייא בר אבא אמר רבי יוחנן גוים שבחוצה לארץ לאו עובדי עבודה זרה הן אלא מנהג אבותיהן בידיהן

These sages seem to be saying that the idolatry of most Gentiles does not count because they do so only out of sense of tradition rather than a sincere devotion to alien gods. One wonders whether this is a special leniency for Gentiles (that insincere idolatry is in a sense permitted) or whether these sages would permit Jews who grew up in an idolatrous tradition to similarly participate in insincere idolatry?

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  • Good question. It would still likely be forbidden because of Chukat Goyim.
    – Rabbi Kaii
    Commented Dec 22, 2022 at 21:28
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    You seem to be conflating two different things: 1) whether or not people who worship idolatry merely because they were raised to do so (and whose worship is therefore less devout and more by habit, see Rashi and Tosafos) have the status of idolators in certain regards, and 2) whether or not the idolatrous actions they do are permitted.
    – Fred
    Commented Dec 22, 2022 at 21:32
  • Surely an act of worship is either idolatry or not idolatry and there is no room for middle ground?
    – user19234
    Commented Dec 23, 2022 at 0:23
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    מאהבה ומיראה מחלוקת אביי ורבא
    – kouty
    Commented Dec 23, 2022 at 6:43
  • @Fred How is it possible to divorce the act from the actor? If an act is idolatry, the actor must be an idolator otherwise we would be in an absurd circumstance of an act with no agent.
    – user19234
    Commented Dec 25, 2022 at 0:41

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In the Midrash we learn that Moses' grandson took up idolatry as a job, as it were. King David was not pleased, so we can assume it is not permitted:

One cunning fellow … asked him: “Why then do you sit here and serve [idols]?”
He replied: “I am paid for it, but I despise it.”
When [King] David heard of him he sent for him and said, “Do you, the grandson of so righteous a man practice idolatry?” He replied: “I have received this teaching from the house of my father's father [Moses]: Sell yourself to idolatry rather than be dependent on your fellow-creatures.” [David] said to him: “God forbid! That is not so. What it means is: Sell yourself to a service which is foreign to you [i.e., which you consider to be below your dignity] rather than depend on your fellow-men.” [Song of Songs Rabbah 2:18]

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  • If cynical idolatry (that of Jonathan ben Gershom) is identical with traditional idolatry (that of people who worship because their ancestors did), how do we reconcile the midrash which condemns it with the Amoraim who permit it?
    – user19234
    Commented Dec 25, 2022 at 0:36
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    One is idolatry by inertia, without really giving it much thought, and that apparently can be tolerated; and the other is cynical idolatry, just to make a buck, and that apparently is not tolerated.
    – Maurice Mizrahi
    Commented Dec 25, 2022 at 1:20
  • @MosheWise The Amoraim did not permit it (Shabbos 72b, Sanhedrin 61b), but there is a machlokes about whether such a person is obligated to bring a korban if he insincerely worshipped idolatry because he wrongly thought it was permitted to worship idolatry insincerely (Rashi, Shabbos 72b: שגג בהכי דסבור כיון דאין מתכוין לבו לאלהות מותר). NB: Exempt and permitted are two different things.
    – Fred
    Commented Dec 25, 2022 at 18:31
  • @Fred The Johanan bar Nappaha dictum says neither 'permitted' nor 'exempt.' It simply that the traditional Gentile worshipers are not considered idolaters which means that their worship activity is not idolatry and is therefore not a violation of the prohibition of idolatry. If it is forbidden but not idolatry, it must be forbidden based on some other commandment or principle.
    – user19234
    Commented Dec 25, 2022 at 19:12

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