A minyan starts to daven mincha before sheki’a with the intention to daven maariv after sheki’a. In the event, mincha extends beyond shki’a.

There are IMHO three possible cases:

  1. They start but do not finish the quiet shmoneh esrai before shki’a.

  2. They finish the quiet shmoneh esrai but not the repetition.

  3. They finish the repetition but don’t finish the rest of davenning.

Is any of these situations “tartei desasrei” – two contradictory acts?

This question is related to but not identical to When is the earliest time you can Daven Maariv during the week?.

  • 3 is definitely not a problem. The other two I'm not sure.
    – Double AA
    Commented Jan 5, 2012 at 23:19
  • When should they Daven, then, Tzeith HaKochavim?
    – Seth J
    Commented Jan 6, 2012 at 1:28
  • @SethJ. If it's “tartei desasrei”, then, ideally, yes. See the answer below too. Commented Jan 6, 2012 at 13:23
  • It's potentially worse than tarti desasrei, b/c it might be past the time of mincha according to all tannaim
    – AKA
    Commented Apr 4, 2023 at 20:38

1 Answer 1


This answer presumes that the minyan is davening back-to-back because otherwise people may go home and end up not davening maariv. Therefore, I am bringing a psak that not everyone agrees to, but may be applicable under the aforementioned circumstance- CYLOR.

The Aruch haShulchan (OC 110:5) holds that one who starts davening in the proper time is davening "on time" regardless of when he finishes.

He learns this from Tosafos on Brachos 7a. There is a drasha showing G-d's kindness for not getting angry during Bilam's curse. Since G-d's anger is only a split second (see gemara), Tos. asks what Bilam could have accomplished? One of his answers is that he could have started the curse and it would have retained it's potency afterward.

The only thing I'm not sure about is the shatz for mincha who davened the total repetition after sunset, since I recall (not sure where) that the repetition is his actual tefila and his silent one was a rehearsal (established pre-siddurim). So his entire tefilah may have been post-sunset.

  • I think your last idea is echoed somewhere in Igrot Moshe. No source...
    – Double AA
    Commented Jan 6, 2012 at 4:25
  • Could be, but I seem to remember it from earlier sources as well.
    – YDK
    Commented Jan 6, 2012 at 4:30
  • @YDK. Thanks for the reference to the Aruch haShulchan (from "havinenu" - well remembered)! Point about the shalich tzibbur is well taken. If anyone can supply a source, I'd be grateful. Commented Jan 6, 2012 at 13:21
  • @AvrohomYitzchok, OK, it wasn't on my fingertips, I recalled it from somewhere in the Ah"S, but it took a lot of searching. I'm very determined to find something when I remember it, but then it's not there. I went through havineinu seriously after my Rav's son told me his father used it a few times in the airport. I never asked him the situation, perhaps he was late for boarding and felt it was better that any situation of davening on the plane.
    – YDK
    Commented Jan 8, 2012 at 15:15
  • I asked my Rav about the case. He referred to the impossibility of being precise with sheki'a and quoted a local highly respected Rav who had issued a lenient ruling with respect to a hefsek taharah in the sheki'a time frame. Commented Jan 11, 2012 at 15:24

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