2

The Talmud talks of a malchus harisha (evil kingdom). This seems to be referring to the Roman Empire in all contexts.

Tractate Avodah Zarah 2b says that Rome and Persia will last until the coming of Moshiach.

It is because with regard to these, Rome and Persia, their kingship extends until the coming of the Messiah.

Now that the Roman Empire has declined, do any rabbinic sources discuss what is considered to be the malchus harisha today?

12
  • You're assuming one still exists? Why?
    – robev
    Commented Jun 12, 2022 at 18:55
  • 1
    @robev it's still in our prayers judaism.stackexchange.com/q/119574/759
    – Double AA
    Commented Jun 12, 2022 at 18:55
  • 1
    @robev all our uncensored versions, and it somehow snuck past the censors on yamim noraim כי תעביר ממשלת זדון
    – Double AA
    Commented Jun 12, 2022 at 19:44
  • 1
    Rome/Edom is often reconfigured as Christianity/Western Civilization. Commented Jun 12, 2022 at 23:03
  • 1
    Romans like to conquer others. Persia likes to drink and feast. Rome represents how we behave to others, Persia represents how we thinking internally. Bavel (remember the tower) represents how we act to God. Commented Mar 1 at 13:32

2 Answers 2

-1

The malchus harasha is the Jewish people.

There is no one forbidding the Jews from practicing their religion or enslaving them. There is no external force preventing Jews from doing Judaism, only themselves.

There may be a few Jews remaining in Arab countries but they can leave. Even Russia allows the Jews freedom to practice more or less and they could have left before the Ukraine war.

Regarding the Palestinians and Iran, they are not a serious threat. Israel could nuke them at any time and build the Bais Hamikdsah but its benefactor, the US, has asked them nicely (paid them) not to. Israel could end that relationship if it wanted to.

Today there is nothing like Egypt, Rome, the Church oppressing the Jews.

8
  • 2
    "The malchus harasha is the Jewish people." Citation needed... Commented Mar 1 at 14:02
  • @Deuteronomy my answer you deleted but this answer you are fine with? Commented Mar 1 at 16:14
  • Based on your profile and website you seem to have a fixation against edom. Your name, tzir, reminds me of the word for "pot" in Jeremiah 1:14 from which misfortune would pour. Perhaps the moderators are afraid that if you splash Edom with your answer, they will become vengeful and destroy the Jews. Commented Mar 1 at 17:40
  • 1
    Your answer is that the Jewish people are the מלכות הרשעה... but cite no source, other than your personal opinion, that such ought be considered the case. Do you have any Jewish textual sources that back up your specific claim (that מלכות הרשעה = the Jewish people)? Otherwise, this does not answer the question and probably ought to have been a comment on the question rather than posted as an answer. Commented Mar 1 at 18:57
  • 1
    Jewish publication hasn't ceased in the past 33 years. If you've got something to corroborate your pet theory, post it. Commented Mar 1 at 22:09
-2

The short answer is that the Malchut Harisha in our times is the Roman Curia which commands the hearts and minds of over 1.38 billion around the world mostly in territory that was captured by the original Roman Empire and successive states that splintered off. The Roman Curia is ruled by the person of the Pope and upon his death almost all members resign.

The clerical takeover of the Roman Empire began with the Edict of Milan which legalized Christianity in the Roman Empire. Later the Edict of Thessalonica would make Christianity the official state religion.

Then Emperor Justinian formed Pentarchy of five Patriarchs with 5 jurisdictions: Rome, Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria.

The Pope received the Donation of Pepin thus marking the beginning of the Papal States and the temporal power of the Pope. The Holy Roman Empire was formed when the Pope crowned Charlemagne as Roman Emperor. From here on in the Pope would be kingmaker in Western Europe.

The Bishop of Rome always felt he was a cut above his peers and kept asserting Papal supremacy. This eventually lead to the East-West Schism. The Roman Curia was formed in response to this schism. If anybody still doubts the Papal aspirations to dominate the Roman Empire perhaps they should read the history of the Donation of Constantine.

A major challenge to the Pope’s undisputed power came with the Reformation. This prompted the Roman Curia to spring into action with the Counter-Reformation. From the time of the Council of Trent the main instrument of the Roman Curia of imposing its will on the world, the Secretariat of State was highly developed.

The Pope briefly lost temporal power as a result of the Unification of Italy. However, later the Roman Curia was able to force the Fascist dictator Benito Mussolini into signing the Lateran treaty which gave the Roman Curia the legal framework to establish diplomatic networks and pursue their foreign policy objectives.

It didn’t take long for the Roman Curia to act as kingmaker installing Adolf Hitler as the Nazi dictator of Germany in exchange for the signing of the Reichskonkordat. This is well documented in John Cornwell’s book Hitler’s Pope.

Chazal make it clear that the only power that can challenge Rome and have a chance of beating them is Persia.

Rebbi predicts a Persian victory over Rome.

Reb Yehudah also predicts a Persian victory.

Reb Yehudah’s view that Persia should win makes sense as it is based on the merit that Persia built the Second Temple in stark contrast to Rome that destroyed it.

The dissenting view of Rav is that Rome will win as Rome must spread throughout the world for 9 months before the son of David arrives.

As soon as you hear 9 months you should get very worried. The 9 months are a period called chevlei Moshiach and spell 9 months of unspeakable tragedy for the Jewish people.

I therefore advocate e Persian victory as per the opinion of Rebbi and Reb Yehudah.

Edit

As requested I provide a Jewish source to back the logical inference of the undisputed history I have here summarized.

Also how is it possible that all the nations of the world will rise up wihtout a reason to fight against Edom and what is this envoy that was sent and who sent it? Rather the true meaning is waht I said two times that the nation of Edom is the summation of the Christians that begin with the Romans will be awoken to go up and conquer Jerusalem because it is holy for their religion and Jesu is buried there as well and just like they have many times been stirred to conqured for any given reason.

Abarbanel on Ovadiah

5
  • 2
    Your answer is that the administrative body of the Roman Catholic Church is the מלכות הרשעה... but cite no source, other than your personal opinion, that such ought be considered the case. Do you have any Jewish textual sources that back up your specific claim (that מלכות הרשעה = the modern Roman Curia)? Otherwise, this does not answer the question and probably ought to have been a comment on the question rather than posted as an answer. Commented Mar 1 at 18:55
  • @Deuteronomy the events I have summarized using the sources produced by the goyim’s own account of history transpired after Chazal. Nonetheless see sefaria.org/Abarbanel_on_Obadiah.1.1.12?lang=bi for a later saying explicitly that Edom equals the Christians. Commented Mar 1 at 19:29
  • 3
    The question clearly asks about sources that discuss what constitutes מלכות הרשעה today - the Abarbanel lived in the 15th/16th c. This simply doesn't answer the question. Commented Mar 1 at 22:19
  • @Deuteronomy I've heard people make ridiculous claims the US is the Malchut Harisha today but haven't actually seen this in print. I see no reason to deviate from the Arbabnel and make believe that Rome is now on a different continent entirely. If you know of any other government in Rome that is a) Christian and b) commands the hearts and minds of over 1.38 billion people worldwide then I will be open to hearing your alternative suggestion. Until then my answer stands completely unchallenged. Commented Mar 3 at 1:27
  • 2
    At this point you are simply restating your opinion. You have not cited any sources that discuss the identity of מלכות הרשעה today and accordingly have not answered the question. Commented Mar 4 at 1:15

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .