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I see that many Jewish sites make Mechirat Chametz on Internet. I know that traditionally poeple make the selling by a Shtar and a Kinyan Sudar to make the Rav Shaliach to sell the Chametz. How works the Qinyan when somebody write only his name and address in an Internet site? And why need they a Qinyan?

In several Gemarot we see the concept of "Qanu Miyado", or "Qanu Mineh", e.g. in Sanhedrin, to give the power of a Bet Din which is not regular, or in Baba Batra for Matnat Shchiv Mera. Rashi explains in BB that it's a Qinyan Sudar. The Qinyan Sudar is called Chalipin and we rule that it's made with an Utensil belonging to the purchaser. In the Qetuba the Chatan makes a Qinyan Sudar for the commitment of the Ketuba. It's not clear for me and to appoint an envoy, I don't remember, even for Kitvu Utnu Get.

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  • I believe the intent is it's better than nothing, although I've seen websites advertised as the lemehadrin way to sell...strange.
    – robev
    Apr 11 at 15:39
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    A public warning to all the Googlers who come here: the Chabad.org chametz sale sells your pots too (at least as of a couple years ago). Most Poskim hold that there is no need to sell your pots (just any chametz on them) and most Poskim hold that if you sold your pots you have to tovel them again after buying them back. So unless you are a lubvaticher you should probably go somewhere else.
    – Double AA
    Apr 11 at 16:16
  • @DoubleAA sounds like a good question topic. Did anyone ever ask here why Chabad holds you have to sell your pots, and why you don't have to toivel them?
    – robev
    Apr 11 at 19:45
  • @robev judaism.stackexchange.com/q/70140/759
    – Double AA
    Apr 12 at 12:45
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    @DoubleAA Where do you see that? I was just looking at the contract and all it says is "I (we), the undersigned, fully empower and authorize Rabbi Yosef Landa to act on my (our) behalf, to sell all types of chametz, as defined by Torah and Rabbinic law, that may be in my (our) possession, knowingly or unknowingly, wherever it may be; at home, at my (our) place of business, or elsewhere, in accordance with the requirements of Jewish law, as incorporated in the special contract for the sale of chametz."
    – Heshy
    Apr 13 at 10:42

2 Answers 2

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Dovid Grossman was told by R’ Zalman Nechamia Goldberg that although it is preferable, per the Rambam, to make a kinyan sudar when appointing a shaliach, if it is difficult it is not required.

A Teshuva from Dayan Yehoshua Grunwald

March 4, 2021

Contemporary poskim permit a person to appoint a rav to sell his chametz over the phone. (See Mechiras Chametz Kehilchaso 17:11.) This verbal communication is sufficient to make the rav his shaliach (proxy) to sell the chametz. Since the seller is not selling the chametz directly to the rav, no formal kinyan is absolutely required. The rav can write down the details of the chametz—value, location, etc.—as they were reported to him.

One concern with phone authorization is that since no shtar harsha’ah (authorization) is signed, there is no proof of the rav’s appointment, which could possibly invalidate the sale. A remedy would be to additionally sign a shtar harsha’ah and send it to the rav by email or otherwise..

The Chasam Sofer (Shu”t, Even Ha’ezer 1:43) allows authorization of the rav by mail. Doing so online or by email, text message, or the like would seem no different. An electronic communication that leaves a record is superior to a phone call.

Another concern with phone or online appointment of the rav as a shaliach is the absence of the kinyan sudar. Some have suggested that a kinyan sudar be made between the seller and a third party. R’ Dovid Grossman was told by R’ Zalman Nechamia Goldberg that although it is preferable, per the Rambam, to make a kinyan sudar when appointing a shaliach, if it is difficult it is not required.

https://baishavaad.org/qa-from-the-bais-havaad-halacha-hotline-33/

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There is no online kinyan - sudar, shtar, mamon, hagbaah, meshiva, vichulu - I see no way how you can do a kinyan online.

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    look up situmta. also note that you are not selling anything to the rav, rather appointing him as your agent to sell to the nochri.
    – Joel K
    Apr 13 at 8:44
  • I don't find my comment cancelled arbitrarily
    – kouty
    Apr 13 at 14:14
  • @JoelK What would the sitmuta be? You aren't doin any maaseh.
    – Kovy Jacob
    Apr 13 at 15:25
  • @KovyJacob Clicking OK
    – Joel K
    Apr 13 at 15:46
  • That's not considered a maaseh.
    – Kovy Jacob
    Apr 13 at 15:47

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