Is there a machzor ashkenaz for yomim noroim without piyutim? Seeing that we skip so much of it these days, it would be proper if we had a smaller standardised machzor.
-
13This reminds me of the story that was doing the rounds on social media this year....The Gerrer Rebbe was once asked by a chossid, "There are so many things in the Machzor we don't say. Why don't we just print a new Machzor that only includes what we say?" The Rebbe responded, "And take away the Simcha that a Yid gets when he skips a page of davening" :-)– DovOct 5, 2021 at 13:47
-
9Yes there is, and it's called a Siddur. Many Siddurim print the Amida for Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur in them already (for example, this one from Artscroll). The whole point of a machzor is the piyyutim; if you don't want piyyutim just use a siddur.– Double AA ♦Oct 5, 2021 at 14:28
-
Standard machzorim already leave out most of the piyutim– HeshyOct 5, 2021 at 14:36
-
@Heshy If people only knew how many piyyutim they used to say by default in all ashkenazi shuls everywhere, they wouldn't complain so much about the few that are still commonly recited today– Double AA ♦Oct 5, 2021 at 14:50
-
@DoubleAA to be fair you could have said the same thing to our ancestors too. We've been shortening piyutim for centuries.– HeshyOct 5, 2021 at 19:14
|
Show 4 more comments
1 Answer
There is, the machzor used by (and published by) the Zilberman yeashiva of Jerusalem's Old City and the Horva synagogue. They say most of the piyutim said by other yeshivos that I am familiar with, but after the chazan's repetition instead of during, other than the avoda piyut of Yom Kippur. These are printed there and not in the traditional places. The piyutim that they don't say are not printed at all. Also generally the layout is exceptional. It comes out to one small volume for Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur together.
But I don't recommended it for anyone davening at a standard minyan. The change of structure would be very confusing, and the gain of not having the piyutim that are not said is offset by the ones that are said being in a new place or skipped, and other changes from the standard nusach.
BTW, many standard machzorim put piyutim that are usually skipped either in small type or in the back of the book, like the English Artscroll machzorim, Feldhim's Keter Malchus, and Machzor Sidur Tefilosanu.
-
This machzor (apparently) has different piyyutim in different places, but how does it answer the question which sought a machzor without piyyutim?– Double AA ♦Oct 6, 2021 at 21:49
-
"put piyutim that are usually skipped" Is this an effect or a cause? Did they put them in small type because they were skipped or are they skipped because they are in small type? For example, Artscroll put some piyyutim in the back that Birnbaum had in the main text and seemingly everyone was saying. (Silluk of YK Mincha comes to mind.)– Double AA ♦Oct 6, 2021 at 21:51
-
The piyutim not said are not printed at all. As you pointed out, a siddur without any piyutim is hardly a machzor. Oct 6, 2021 at 21:51
-
Not what the OP asked about, the Sidur Tefilosanu Shalosh Regalim machzor doesn't have piyutim other that the short versions of Tefilas Tal and Geshem. But no one would know what is being skipped if they don't take a long look at the machzorim for the shlosh regalim. Oct 6, 2021 at 21:55
-
@DoubleAA Why the would have the silluk of mincha have been recited but not the silluk of shacharit? Just because it's shorter?– Joel KOct 7, 2021 at 7:01