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An answer tangentially mentions that there are those who say that one should also bow at the end of the Modim deRabanan. This is mentioned in Orach Chayim 127:1, and its foremost proponent seems to be the Rashba, who reports in the name of the Raavad that the discussion on Berakhot 34b is actually about the Modim deRabanan (see also Taz ד"ה גם בסוף), and based on Yerushalmi Berakhot 1:5 (רבי זעירא סבר לקרובה) one should also bow at the end as R' Zeira did:

ר' זעירא אמר ובלבד במודים. רבי זעירא סבר לקרובה כדי לשוח עמו תחלה וסוף.‏

R. Zeira said, [The obligation is to bow along with the leader] specifically [at the time he recites] the words, We give thanks. [As he recited,] R. Zeira sought to follow [the leader] closely so that he could bow at the beginning and end [of the blessing, We give thanks along with the leader].

(Neusner translation)

However, I've only seen one person doing this by so far. One reason can be that the Arizal was reportedly against this practice, so I assume most Chasidim don't do this (although see Shulchan Arukh haRav). Therefore, I'd like to know which contemporary authorities support bowing at the end as well and which branches of Judaism follow the Raavad in this regard?

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  • Wouldn't you expect this to be dependent on whether or not it ends with a chatima? (which is classically a sefardi/ashkenazi distinction)
    – Double AA
    Aug 13 '21 at 14:43
  • @Double That's an interesting point, but the only person I saw bowing was an Ashkenazi. Aug 13 '21 at 14:48
  • what do you mean "but"? Having a chatima is classically indeed the ashkenazi side of the machloket.
    – Double AA
    Aug 13 '21 at 14:54
  • For what it is worth I myself do it, and I see many people do it as well.
    – Chatzkel
    Aug 13 '21 at 15:11
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    @Kazi Bacsi I am an ashkenazi yeshiva guy living in NJ who davens Ashkenaz in a Yeshiva minyan, although I picked it up when I learned in Israel in Bnei Brak
    – Chatzkel
    Aug 13 '21 at 15:16
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The Mahadura Chadasha Dirshu (127:1:n7) quotes the Chazon Ish (Dinim V'Hanhagos 4:30) and Steipler (Orchos Rabbeinu 1:p.65)

מנהגם היה כדעת היש אומרים בשו"ע לשחות בתחילת מודים וגם בסופו אך לא בכולו - Their custom was to bow at the beginning and end of Modim, but not the entire Modim.


The the cited works below:

Chazon Ish – Dinim veHanhagot 5:17:

במודים דרבנן היה שוחה גם בסוף.‏

During the Modim reRabbanan he used to bow at the and as well.

Steipler Gaon – Orechot Rabbeinu 1:88

מו"ר (שליט"א) זצוק"ל שוחה בסוף מודים דרבנן (כיש אומרים בס"א שם). וכן מרן החזו"א זצוק"ל הי' שוחה.‏

Our master and rabbi (שליט"א) זצוק"ל bows at the end of Modim deRabbanan (as "others say" in the first paragraph [of Orach Chayim 127]). And this is how our master, the Chazon Ish זצוק"ל used to bow.

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This practise is also related in the Rivevos Ephraim, cheilek 7, siman 26, os beis.

It writes there:

ובמודים דרבנן דבטור ב"י לסימן קכ"ז הובא מחלוקת הראשונים אם לחתום בו בא"ה קל ההודאות, ועפ"י פשרת הר"י הנ"ל כתב הב"י שאף במודים דרבנן מן הנכון לעשות כן, ולחתום ברוך קל ההודאות בלא שם, ועי' ברכות ל"ד ע"ב ורשב"א שם שאף במודים דרבנן [כמו בברכת מודים שבשמונה עשרה] יש לכרוע תחילה וסוף. ומו"ר הרה"ג רמ"פ זצ"ל נהג לכרוע בסוף כשהי' אומר על שאנחנו מודים, דאילו לכרוע בשעת אמירת קל ההודאות, הרי זה אינו כלום לדידן, דנוהגין כהב"י וכפשרת הר"ר יונה הנ"ל דלפי פשרה זו מעיקרא דדינא, הרי אין למודים דרבנן חתימה, כלל, ואמירת ברוך קל ההודאות הרי איננה [באמת] חלק מהמודים דרבנן

And with regards to Modim DeRabanan the Beis Yosef brings on the Tur, siman 127 a machlokes rishonim on whether to conclude it with, "Baruch kel hahodaos (Blessed is the Almighty to Whom all thanks are due)". And through the compromise of Rabbeinu Yonah mentioned earlier, the Beis Yosef writes that even with Modim derabanan it is correct to do so and to conclude "Baruch kel hahodaos" without Hashem's name. And over in Berachos 34b with the Rashba (we say there) that even with modim derabanan (like we do with the Modim in Shemoneh esrei), one bows both at the beginning and the end. And our master and teacher the Rav and Gaon, Rav Moshe Feinstein zt"l was accustomed to bow at the end as he was saying "Sheananchu modim", which means he is bowing when saying 'kel hahodaos', since this is nothing according to him (?), since we are accustomed like the Beis Yosef and like the compromise of Rabbeinu Yonah mentioned earlier, we don't view modim derabanan as a chasima at all and saying "baruch kel hahodaos" is not (in truth) a part of modim derabanan.

Interesting to note from there that this was also the custom of Rav Moshe Feinstein.

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    Will bli neder translate when I get a mo - otherwise anyone else feel free to add
    – Dov
    Aug 13 '21 at 15:30
  • Please note translation was done quickly and may not be so accurate - please amend accordingly.
    – Dov
    Aug 13 '21 at 16:30
  • People should note the R Feinstein's position about understanding the structure of this prayer is somewhat sui generis.
    – Double AA
    Aug 13 '21 at 16:31
  • Doesn't he say that he bowed at al sheanachnu to make sure that he was already bowing at borukh? Aug 13 '21 at 16:43
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    I regret that this is a mistranslation of דאילו. It means "if he were". So the Rivevos Ephraim is actually saying that Rav Moshe would bow at "sheanachnu modim" but NOT at the end, because that would be nothing, since it does not end with a chasimah in our custom. That is, Rav Moshe understood that the Rashba who held one should bow at the end only did so because it had a chasimah in his opinion, without a chasimah, there is no point.
    – N.T.
    Aug 13 '21 at 18:13
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Bowing in general is a very powerful way of having one's tefillot get answered. While it may not be required depending on the posek, it is definitely advantageous for a forward thinking individual to take advantage of the bowing technique.

This is based on the Gemora in Brachot which is discussing the topic of bowing in general(from Safaria brachot 31a)

a person would leave Rabbi Akiva alone in one corner of the study hall and later find him still praying in another corner. And why would Rabbi Akiva move about so much? Because of his bows and prostrations. Rabbi Akiva’s enthusiasm in prayer was so great, that as a result of his bows and prostrations, he would unwittingly move from one corner to the other (Rav Hai Gaon).

The Ben Ish Chai there teaches that there is a very important inyan in bowing:

נראה לי בס"ד רמז ענין נסתר לפי דרכו, לומר שהיה מכוין תחלה לעשות זווג עליון דחכמה ובינה, ואחר כך זווג תחתון דתפארת ומלכות

It appears to me this passage intimates an esoteric matter, [namely] to teach [Rabbi Akiva] first intended to perform a unification of the supernal Chochma and Bina and then to unify the lower Tiferet and Malchut

Through his bowing Rabbi Akiva was petitioning God to introduce an influx of His providence from the higher worlds to our physical plane.

Based on the Ben Ish Hai, the bowing of Modim itself, if done with reverence, has symbolic importance which God takes into account when answering the tefillah.

Specifically two bows can be performed with the intention to correspond to the two categories of bows of Rabbi Akiva and this would be based on this Gemara in brachot.

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    I'm sorry, but I fail to see, how would this answer my question. Aug 14 '21 at 19:43
  • If you were wise with eyes in your head you might understand that i am addressing the deeper issue behind the surface level question you are asking. Along with the other puzzle pieces on this page a new understanding of modim and bowing will emerge if you can will yourself to perceive it. Aug 15 '21 at 20:37
  • You fail to see a lot more than the relevance of my answer. Try opening your eyes Aug 15 '21 at 20:39

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