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What are the various halachic opinions regarding this?

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  • 2
    Are there actually various halachic opinions regarding this?
    – Double AA
    Aug 13 at 0:50
  • possible duplicate judaism.stackexchange.com/q/61366/759
    – Double AA
    Aug 13 at 0:54
  • Well I was wondering so because although the mitzvah is performed in its pinnacle way when the Amidah is davened along w/ the tzibbur, there still must be some form of schar even when not doing so out of tardiness, besides from the fact that it’s schar halicha lbeit hamidrash. Aug 13 at 0:57
  • Why is it that "there still must be some form of schar"? I don't understand why that must be
    – Double AA
    Aug 13 at 1:38
  • Because even though you didn’t daven punctually you still got a chance to listen to the chazzan and answer amen to a lot of his berachos. Aug 13 at 1:56
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For starters, the L'chatchila (full tefilla b'tzibbur) is to start exactly with the Tzibbur as the Mishna Berura in Biur Halacha 109:1 says

דאפשר דזה לאו תפלת צבור גמורה מקרי מאחר שלא התחיל עמהן בשוה וכמו שכתב הפמ"ג

In Siman 65:35 the Mishna Berura says further that it needs to be exactly at the same time

גם לכתחלה ראוי להתחיל תפלת י"ח עם הש"ץ והקהל בשוה

(M'Pi Hashmuah I have heard people say Reb Moshe said up until 2 minutes after the Tzibuur started is still counted as starting at the same time, but I never was able to find it written anywhere)

R' Moshe Sternbuch (Teshuvos Vehanhagos 1:80) says that in Kelm they were extremely careful to have everyone start exactly together

However, beyond the L'chatchila, R' Shlomo Zalman (Halichos Shlomo 1, 8:7) says that as long the Tzibbur is still davening then it is still counted as Tefilla B'tzibbur.

The option of davening along with the shat"z is mentioned in Shulchan Aruch (109:2) is a machlokes between R' Shlomo Zalamn who says it is considered Tefilla B'tzibbur (Halichos Shlomo 1, 8:41) and R' Moshe who says it isn't (Igros Moshe O"C 3:9)

Lastly, the Chazon Ish seems to be the most lenient one I have found so far. In Orchos Rabbeinu (Chelek 3, Page 208) it says the Chazon Ish holds that as long as even one person who started along with the Tzibbur is still davening, then you can start and still be considered Tefilla B'tzibbur. He even says this could work continuously, meaning you start before one person finishes and someone else starts before you finish and so forth. (Although I have heard that he qualified this would only work until the Shat"z says Kaddish Tiskabel, at which point you can no longer be considered joining the Tefilla B'tzibbur.)

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  • I think the kitsur has something to say about this.
    – interested
    Aug 15 at 21:03
  • The question really is can you miss out pesukai d'zimra if you only start with the chazan.
    – interested
    Aug 15 at 21:12
  • @interested According to Reb Moshe you wouldn't skip for that. He himself brings a proof from the Pri Migadim that talks about that and says you shouldn't skip as a proof that it's not tefilla btzibbur.
    – Chatzkel
    Aug 15 at 21:43

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