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It says in the Baal HaTanya's Hilchos Talmud Torah that one fulfills his obligation to learn Torah only if he says the words. Moreover, a Chavrusa fulfills his obligation only because Shomeya Keoneh.

Most Poskim do not consider a person listening to a tape as Shomeya Keoneh (and one shouldn't answer Amen to blessings he hears over the phone[1]). So does one fulfill Mitzvas Talmud Torah by listening to a shiur on a tape?

[1]. Even according to those who say that one should answer Amen after a live transmission agree that one doesn't after a recording.

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    This question may also apply to listening to a shiur over the phone, like Dial-a-Daf.
    – Shmuel
    Commented Dec 18, 2011 at 6:03
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    <rant> I'm sorry, but questions like these completely baffle me. It would appear that simple common sense should provide the obvious answer. By listening to this tape, are you engaging in the study of Torah, participating in the our grand and ancient tradition, and gaining Torah knowledge and growing spiritually? If yes, then it's Talmud Torah, because you are being לומד תורה. If not, because, lets say, you're not paying attention, or the tape is actually "Best of Queen," then it's not. Simple. Common. Sense. </rant>
    – Shmuel
    Commented Dec 18, 2011 at 6:05
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    @ShmuelL not sure if you noticed, but he has a stated premise: "only if he says the words". Listen doesn't = says.
    – yydl
    Commented Dec 18, 2011 at 6:21
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    @ShmuelL according to judaism.stackexchange.com/a/1976/732 you would be right according to the Gra (unfortunately he doesn't give the source for the Gra). However, (he mentions this also) that other opinions do not hold like that shita (and as an example, I linked to the Hilchos Talmud Torah of the Shulchan Aruch Harav) where he rules explicitly not like that Shitta.
    – ertert3terte
    Commented Dec 18, 2011 at 6:34
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    @yydl Ah, true. But that raises the [mind-boggling] question of whether reading the gemara\chumash silently counts as Talmud Torah. (Mind-boggling because - see my rant above.)
    – Shmuel
    Commented Dec 18, 2011 at 6:34

5 Answers 5

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I asked this question once when I wanted to learn a Masechta for the purpose of making a Siyum. I learned it on mp3 and made a Siyum with the approval of a prominent Rav who ran a Kiruv program for which I volunteered in DC.

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    +1. Do you think you could share his name?
    – msh210 ♦
    Commented Dec 16, 2011 at 19:40
  • I actually need to edit this answer. I'm embarrassed to admit that I was just hit with a flashback of memory that inexplicably eluded me earlier. Sorry for any confusion.
    – Seth J
    Commented Dec 16, 2011 at 19:58
  • It's been edited, in case anyone was wondering.
    – Seth J
    Commented Dec 18, 2011 at 17:47
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    I asked this question to HaRav Shammai Gross Shlit"a (Bal Machaber ShuT Shevat HaKahasi) a very well known posek in Eretz Yisrael. He said that a siyum could be made on a mesecta learned by way of listening to a shiur (even recorded.) He said at the end of the day the person did learn the material required for the the siyum. When I posed the question I noted that the person did in fact "learn" and "understand" the mesecta well by way of the shiur.
    – Yehoshua
    Commented Dec 2, 2012 at 21:26
  • @SethJ was this Rabbi by any chance r Tzvi teitelbaum?
    – Shoel U'Meishiv
    Commented Jun 24, 2015 at 20:29
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Based on the Sefer HaBeracha WeHilchoteah (58:15) it counts as Miswat Talmud Torah.

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R Braun (from the Crown Heights Beis Din) says that one does not fulfill the obligation to learn torah by listening to tapes.

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Shulchan Aruch HaRav Hilchos Talmud Torah 3:12 says in part:

וכל אדם צריך ליזהר להוציא בשפתיו ולהשמיע לאזניו כל מה שלומד בין במקרא משנה ותלמוד אלא אם כן בשעת עיון להבין דבר מתוך דבר וכל מה שלומד בהרהור לבד ואפשר לו להוציא בשפתיו ואינו מוציא אינו יוצא בלימוד זה ידי חובת מצות ולמדתם אותם

And every person has to be careful to say the words with his lips and hear them with his ears in all that he learns whether Mikra, Mishna or Talmud, except at a time of thinking to understand the underlying concepts. Everything that he learns with thinking alone and he was able to say them with his lips but fails to doesn't fulfill with this learning the obligation of the Mitzvah of "And you shall learn them ..."

The author of the footnote points to the Tzemach Tzedek in אור התורה why says the distinction is that "it is impossible to talk." In other words, if learning cannot be accomplished through speaking, as opposed to choosing to remain silent, then it is still learning.

That would seem to apply to Torah tapes.

Note that according to the Tafnas Paneiach quoted here there are two distinct parts of the Mitzvah - one is to know Torah, the other is to learn it. It is only the latter that may have the requirement of saying the words, but the former is sufficient to make a Siyum, so that someone can make a siyum on learning from Torah Tapes is not dispositive of the question of if it is Talmud Torah.

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  • Your last paragraph is very interesting (to me, anyway).
    – Seth J
    Commented Jun 24, 2015 at 20:48
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I don't know wether or not you fulfill your obligation of Talmud Torah but rest assure that in Shemayim you will get great rewards for doing the 'mitzvah' of learning.

It may not be an actual mitzvah, fulfillment of the commandment, as we know it, but it is a mitzvah in the sense that Hakadosh Baruch Hu is proud of you for doing it and that He rewards you for it. (See link in above answer by Shmuel Brin on the word 'says'. The video in the link says it is still a very special thing meaning not actual commandment, but still get Schar)

In Mishnah Avos it talks about 'Schar Halichah' - 'the reward of going', or more specifically, the reward of trying.

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    Source?........
    – ertert3terte
    Commented Jun 4, 2015 at 2:42
  • This doesn't need much of a source- every act we do on this world is rewarded on the next it is all over the place no mitzvah or good act even if it is not the primary obligation is rewarded no mitzvah goes wasted
    – Moshe Goldberg
    Commented Jun 4, 2015 at 2:45
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    Who said he's doing a mitzva?
    – ertert3terte
    Commented Jun 4, 2015 at 2:51
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    How do you know that "every act we do on this world is rewarded on the next it is all over the place no mitzvah or good act even if it is not the primary obligation is rewarded no mitzvah goes wasted"?
    – Double AA ♦
    Commented Jun 4, 2015 at 3:43
  • I'll get back to you I learned it a lot in yeshiva but I have to find the sources
    – Moshe Goldberg
    Commented Jun 4, 2015 at 10:52

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