Is davening with 10 people in attendance but only 6 people actually davening equivalent to davening in a minyan where 10 people are davening together or is it less preferable and ideally not something to regularly do (and one should seek out a minyan where all 10 people (or more) are davening together - especially shemoneh esrei)

Would be grateful for replies with sources.

Thank you so much.

  • 2
    Will follow with a proper answer, but see Mishna Berurah 90:28 which implies that it doesn't count as tefilllah betzibur, but just allows Kaddish/Kedushah to be said. Apparently others argue though.
    – AKA
    Commented May 25, 2021 at 19:54
  • 2
    @AKA Debate between Shut Chassam Sofer and Shut Iggros Moshe? Commented May 25, 2021 at 21:19
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    @IsraelReader Dirshu cites IG"M and others saying not, and Minchas Yitzchak and others saying yes - didn't notice Chasam Sofer but could be!
    – AKA
    Commented May 25, 2021 at 21:49
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    @AKA I tried finding the Iggros Moshe, but was unsuccessful. However I did find the IGM (OC Vol. 3:9, p.308) where he argues on the CS, regarding davening with the Chazzan, if it counts as Tefillah Be'tzibur (CS-Yes, IGM-No). Commented May 25, 2021 at 22:19
  • 2
    @TorahKnowledgeSeeker Igros Moshe Orach Chaim 1:28-30 says it isn't (though he gets uncertain at the end of 30).
    – AKA
    Commented May 26, 2021 at 17:14

1 Answer 1


The mishna Berura in סי’ ס"ט ס”ק ח calls a majority of a minyan (6 people) "כמו ציבור גמור", this indicates that it is in fact tefilla betzibur. Some point to the מ"ב סי’ צ’ ס"ק כ כ”ח where he brings in the name of the חיי אדם that one should daven shemone esre with 10. Which indicated otherwise.

The following poskim hold that it is considered tefillah betzibur

  1. שו"ת חלקת יעקב ח"ב סי” קל”ח
  2. שו"ת מנחת יצחק ח"ג סי’ י וח"ט סי’ ו’ וסי’ ז
  3. משנת יעקב פ"ח מתפילה הל’ ד
  4. שו"ת בצל החכמה ח"ד סי’ קלה

The following poskim disagree and hold that one is allowed to say the tefillos that need a minyan, but it is not considered to be tefillah betzibur

  1. שו"ת אגרות משה אורח ח"א סי” כ"ח-ל
  2. תשובות והנהגות ח"א סי’ ק"ד in the name of the Brisker Rov
  3. שו"ת יד אליהו סי’ ז

For further reference, see אשי ישראל פרק י"ב סעיף ז and in the footnotes (ט"ו and ט"ז).

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