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One starts a bread meal on the morning of erev pesach. One finishes eating all of the bread (and removes all crumbs etc.) before the end of the day's fourth hour, but wants to continue the meal by eating food which is kasher le-pesach after that time.

Would one need to make blessings on the food which he is now eating?

Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim 177:1 rules that foods which are eaten as part of a meal to accompany the bread (even if not actually eaten with the bread) do not need their own blessing, as the hamotzi exempts them.

But in this case, you are not allowed to eat the bread any more, so maybe these foods can no longer be considered to be "accompanying" the bread, in which they case they would need their own blessings?

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  • He was kovea seuda on real bread. Which he can now no longer eat. You're suggesting that that original keviut could continue because he could still eat cake. There's nothing to suggest that he has been kovea seuda on cake – Joel K Mar 15 at 12:53
  • related: judaism.stackexchange.com/q/121069/19563 – Mordechai Mar 15 at 21:38
  • @JoelK Mishna Berura 184 sk 9 implies like you that the keviut to bread does not automatically make kisanin in that meal into keva, and he's quoting the peri megadim, but the pmg's source from the magen avraham in 200:2 actually does not have the word kisnin which sounds against you. I don't know why the pmg casually made that extension. Maybe he was assuming it was kisnin habaim shelo machamat haseuda since you're eating it elsewhere? – Double AA Mar 26 at 17:22
  • @DoubleAA Thank you. מועדים לשמחה. (For anyone following along at home, I believe the Magen Avraham under discussion is 200:3.) – Joel K Mar 29 at 8:01
  • @JoelK judaism.stackexchange.com/q/5918/759 another interesting nafka mina could be covering crackers in addition to bread. – Double AA Apr 7 at 12:41
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As DoubleAA pointed out, this seems to be a case of one who "withdraws his hands from the bread" and needs to make a new beracha before continuing the meal.

O.C. 177:2:

ודברים הבאים לאחר סעודה קודם ברכת המזון שהיה מנהג בימות חכמי הגמרא שבסוף הסעודה היו מושכים ידיהם מן הפת ומסירים אותו וקובעים עצמם לאכול פירות ולשתות כל מה שמביאים אז לפניהם בין דברים הבאים מחמת הסעודה בין דברים הבאים שלא מחמת הסעודה טעונים ברכה בין לפניהם ובין לאחריהם דהמוציא וברכת המזון אין פוטרתן אלא מה שנאכל תוך עיקר הסעודה ודין זה האחרון אינו מצוי בינינו לפי שאין אנו רגילין למשוך ידינו מן הפת עד ברכת המזון:

Things that come after the meal before Birchas HaMazon - it was the practice in the times of the Sages of the Gemara that at the end of the meal they would withdraw their hands from the bread, and would remove it, and they would set themselves to eat fruits and to drink - everything that they bring out then, both things that are brought because of the meal and things that are brought not because of the meal, need a beracha both before and after them, because the HaMotzi and Birchas HaMazon only exempt what is eaten during the main meal. This last halacha is not common by us, since we are not accustomed to withdraw our hands from the bread until Birchas HaMazon.

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The Dirshu Mishna Berurah quotes Shu't Cheshev Ha'Efod, vol 3 #10 this is not considered akiras hashulchan since one is not doing this to interrupt and end the meal, but only in order to eat the fish and meat without any chance of chametz. They also quote R' Shlomo Zalman Aurbach in Shvus Yitzchok, Pesach, page 111, as saying this does not constitute an end to the meal, and all the food is considered part of the meal. enter image description here

Halichos Shlomo on hilchos Pesach also quotes R' S.Z.A. explicitly saying one does not need to make brachos on the food eaten after the time of issue chametz as those foods are a continuation of the meal.

enter image description here

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  • If this is not akiras hashulchan to break than what is? You're eating a new course of new food in a new place and stopping in between to say kol chamira and sweep. What else could they want? What else did akiras hashulchan mean back then but new course of food? It didn't mean food is done and then surprise there's more food: that's called nimlach. – Double AA Mar 16 at 1:04
  • The point seems to be why you stopped with the bread. If it is indeed because you don't actually want more bread, that is akiras hashulchan. If you really want more bread but stopped eating it due to an outside factor, such as not getting crumbs on your chicken, that is not called akiras hashulchan. – user6591 Mar 16 at 1:52
  • Like being on an airplane when you literally have no more available kosher bread hundred of miles after your roll and you still want to eat your packaged eggplant dish? Finishing all available bread is an outside factor? Or is the issue just the akira isn't enough of a hefsek if you didn't intend it to mark the end of the course? I still don't see how this is different from akirat hashulchan in those days. The servant came and took away your tray after the course wether you were stuffed or not. We're literally doing an akirat hashulchan, we don't need to hope for a shem akiras hashulchan. – Double AA Mar 16 at 1:58
  • Finishing all available bread quickly before starting to eat the other food even though preferably you would have eaten it spread out over the entire meal is an outside factor. To elaborate, nobody eats their bread with their ice cream dessert. Classic akiras hashulchan, make a bracha on your ice cream. Everybody nibbles on their bread throughout the fish course, the soup course and the main, so no brachos for them. So why on erev pesach isn't this person eating his bread slowly throughout the meal like he normally does? Cont. – user6591 Mar 16 at 2:29
  • Cont. Because his fish soup and main suddenly became ice cream? No. He had this issue called chametz on erev pesach he is trying to deal with. The foods remain foods that are connected to the bread. – user6591 Mar 16 at 2:29

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