As an amateur in the workings of Gemara, and as a Jew who has just made Aliyah, this is a problem that is really biting at me.

R Yehuda's statement is obviously Aggadeta, and is seemingly refuted by R Zeira, but my issue comes from the fact that R Yehuda's opinion is never rejected outright by the Gemara, nor does he ever change it. Is this a silly thing to be bothered by? Probably. But I can't get it off my mind. How do the Rishonim completely ignore R Yehuda's statement, even if it was never rejected?

  • See the Satmar Rebbe's "VaYoel Moshe" for an anti-Zionist approach which quotes rishonim and achronomim on this sugya. (by the way, even he doesn't say "never make aliya". That's not what the shalosh shuvos means when it says not to go "up like a wall").) Commented Jan 26, 2021 at 10:49
  • Im not referring to R Zeira - im familiar with the Satmar viewpoint and it's sources. R Yehuda doesn't bring those up. He is actually focusing on staying in Bavel (some say חו"ל as well, but in reality there is no basis for that in the text), not necessarily making aliyah or living in Israel.
    – user22192
    Commented Jan 26, 2021 at 11:42
  • 1
    Related: judaism.stackexchange.com/a/70279/15256 Commented Jan 26, 2021 at 12:00
  • Possibly related: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/111378/…
    – Alex
    Commented Jan 26, 2021 at 13:35


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