I was thinking about the confinement that the Derech Hashem discusses of the neshamos (spiritual creations) within the physical body. I'm guessing/assuming (feel free to connect) that spritual creations can be aware of one another and relate/communicate with each other.

My question essentially is what affect does being confined in the גבול of a physical body have on that:

  • while "bound" in the physical body of a person can they still relate/communicate directly with each other or are they totally bound and thus can only connect through the body? i.e. does a neshamah "recognize" another (perhaps even without either person being aware) (as the Derech Hashem says that the connection to the body is a strong one קשר אמיץ but doesn't say the same about the גבול) or does the confines of a body act to totally block any recognition?
  • Along the same line, if this confine is not a total barrier, can neshamos that are no longer bound to the physical (e.g. after death) relate/connect/communicate with those neshamos that are still bound without going through the body (e.g. without the living person even aware)
  • Derech Hashem 1:5:1 - הרוחניים, הם נבראים משוללים מגשם, בלתי מורגשים מחושינו, ומתחלקים לשני מינים, האחד נשמות, והשני נבדלים. - הנשמות, הם מין נבראים רוחניים, התעתדו לבא בתוך גוף, ליגבל בתוכו וליקשר בו בקשר אמיץ, ולפעול בו פעולות שונות בזמנים שונים. - הנבדלים, הם מין נבראים רוחניים, בלתי מעותדים לגופות כלל, ונחלקים לשני חלקים, הא' נקרא כחות, והב' מלאכים. - Spiritual entities, which are creations removed from any physicality and undetectable by our senses, are divided into two categories. The first is neshamos, and the second are transcendentals. - The neshamos are a type of spiritual creation which are destined to be put into a body, to be bound in it and connected to it with a strong connection, and to act through it various acts and various times. - The transcendentals are spiritual beings which are not destined to go into bodies, and they are divided into two sections, the first are called "forces" and the second are angels.

Likewise when the Torah discusses Yaakov wrestling with the שר של עשיו - is it only nations that have a spiritual counterpart that can interact with others (like spiritual creations) or do individuals each have one too

Applying this concept - if 2 people are attracted to each other and get married, did their spiritual counterparts feel the need to connect and thus communicated to the physical counterparts a strong desire to be with the other/marry?

1 Answer 1


I heard in the name of the Gr"a that this passuk

בְּנִי אִם חָכַם לִבֶּךָ יִשְׂמַח לִבִּי גַם אָנִי

"My son, if your heart has become wise, then my heart will also rejoice."

Applies even if the father and the son are on opposite sides of the world.

I.e. there is some sort of deep subconscious communication between the heart of the father and heart of the son, that is not dependant on physical media.

Also, this gemara seems to be relevant to your question:

  • @Grapke - thanks - I looked up the Gra (It's as you remembered it), thx- here's the quote (note I typed it myself , so mistakes are all my own) "כי האב ובנו הם משורש א' ובעת הבן יחכם בלבבו וישמח אף שלא יגלה חכמתו החוצה בדיבורו אז תיכף גם לב האב שמח כמו האבן הנקרא (מגנעט) כשיחתכוהו לשנים כשחלקו הא' יתנועע אז גם השני ינועע אף שיהי' מרחוק בקצה האר כן הוא טבע שרש הבן הנתח מהאב בעת שמחת לבו גם אביו ישמח בלבבו וזהו בני אם חכם לבך אז ישמח ג"כ לבי. גם אני ואח"כ כל אברי שמחים ועוד גם אני הוא כ"י שנקרא אני"
    – Chaim
    Commented Sep 23, 2020 at 1:44
  • @Chaim Cool, thanks.
    – The GRAPKE
    Commented Sep 23, 2020 at 1:48
  • @Chaim Further on this topic, there is a pisgam, devarim ha'yotzeim min ha'lev nichnasim el ha'lev. Rb Chaim Zaitchik said this means as follows: There is one very deep common consciousness of the entire klal yisrael called the "lev", if you reach down deep inside enough in yourself to access this lev, then the words will be nichnas to the lev of your friend, because it is the same lev.
    – The GRAPKE
    Commented Sep 23, 2020 at 1:50
  • @Grapke - also thanks for the Gemara that attempts to prove that the dead can maintain a connection to this world "אלמא ידעי" (that the 2 deceased who were talking knew that they had been overheard by someone alive). Although the Gemara rejects that proof (perhaps they were only made aware by someone that had subsequently died and told them). Though we see that even according to the rejection - that the dead "talk" to each other. Though that seems to be the topic being discussed - so I'm not clear on the end מסקנא
    – Chaim
    Commented Sep 23, 2020 at 1:53
  • @Chaim Rb Dessler discusses contradictions on whether the dead are aware of what is happening in olam hazeh. E.g. the spirits in the above story are aware, but when the beis ha'mikdash was destroyed the navi had to alert the avos to the fact, who then were apparently unware before being alerted. He says it depends on how interested the neshama was in olam hazeh when it was alive.
    – The GRAPKE
    Commented Sep 23, 2020 at 2:00

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