There are times that Torah gives specific "examples" of what is forbidden (e.g. 39 melachos given via a reference to the actions done in the משכן or through other means; Or The Torah specifies 4 cases of damages for which one is liable.

However, what is the source that tells us that these are not meant only as specific issurim, but rather "אבות" e.g. avos melachos (Shabbos Mishnah 7:2) or "avos nezikin" (Bava Kamma 1:1) under which other (similar) actions can be included. i.e. meant not as specific prohibitions only forbidding what it says (e.g. separating grain from the husk) but rather to be a general description from which תולדות come out from (e.g. to say bruising someone, so that the blood is no separated from its location is also forbidden with the same severity).
It doesn't seem to be that we learn these out via מה מצינו, or that they are דרשות learned out via the י"ג מדות שהתורה נדרשת בהם. If so, where does this license come from? The Gemara is Shabbos 70b learns הנה אבות מהנה תולדות however it doesn't seem to be learning out that this is the source of the concept/ability to make Toldos, but rather how the halachos of Toldos work (that they are included - i.e. "from" the Av and not viewed as separately in regards to שגגות והעלמות).
And even if it would be a source, it would still leave the question of where the source is for nezikin. The Gemara seems to only say מדתני אבות מכלל דאיכא תולדות in other words the language the that Tanna used implies that there are more- and thus what are they. But there doesn't seem to be any "מנלן" to find how the Tanna was able to include more in what the Torah stated.

And the other question (aside from the source), is whether it's limited (e.g. to Shabbos, Nezikin) and if so, why would it be limited to only those cases. Or, are all issurim in the Torah meant in the same manner, such that in theory any action that entails the same essence is included?

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    asif.co.il/?wpfb_dl=6696 Jul 20, 2020 at 19:21
  • @Gershon: Thanks! that is exactly what I was looking for.
    – Chaim
    Jul 23, 2020 at 22:43
  • To summarize (@Gershon's link) - he says that (a) מהר"י כ"ץ (brought in the שיטה מקובצת ב"ק ב ע"א) says that "later" in Bava Kamma the Gemara learns it from סברא, and he implies that this סברא applies also to Shabbos. (b) Tos' learn it from the derash הנה מהנה (brought in Shabbos 70b)
    – Chaim
    Jul 23, 2020 at 23:17
  • Q - Does anyone know which Gemara מהר"י כ"ץ is referring to (in Bava Kamma) that learns it from סברא?
    – Chaim
    Jul 23, 2020 at 23:18


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