I seem to remember seeing somewhere, maybe Tosafos somewhere, saying that when the gemarra groups certain halacha lemoshe misinai's together, like Sukkah 5b with שיעורין חציצין ומחיצין, it's telling you that these laws were taught together at Sinai. This is why they're grouped together in this fashion in the gemarra (since sometimes we find halacha lemoshe misinai's on their own, or in a listing).

Where is this idea stated? I'd appreciate a source.

  • What's not clear? Please comment if you think this needs improvement. – robev May 27 '20 at 19:20
  • The biggest problem I have with the way your question is worded is that there is no such Gemara of גוד לבוד ודופן עקומה הלכה למשה מסיני. But if I’m understanding the spirit of your question correctly, Sukkah 5b/Eruvin 4b, Sukkah 34a/44a/MK 3b/Taanis 3a/Zevachim 110b, Niddah 72b/Menachos 89a, Pesachim 110b, and Nedarim 37b are all candidates, where each grouping of Gemaras is a distinct list of 2-3 halachos identified as הלכות למשה מסיני. There is no such Tosfos on the ones in Sukkah, but it could be on one of the others, or a different Rishon in Sukkah. – DonielF May 28 '20 at 2:28
  • @DonielF I never claimed there's a gemarra that says the statement you wrote... I said a gemarra that groups halacha lemoshe misinai's together. In any event, you reminded me that 5b is a better example of what I meant. – robev May 28 '20 at 2:59

Thanks to @DonielF's comment, I recalled that I saw the motivation for this question in the context of עשר נטיעות, ערבה, ונסוך המים found in a few places, including Moed Katan 3b, Sukkah 34a, 44a, Ta'anis 3a, Zevachim 10b. Looking around in those areas I found what I was thinking of.

It's not that they're grouped together to show that they were originally said that way, it's that they are grouped together because that is how they were discussed in the beis midrash. The person who asked the source for these laws was told they're all Halacha LeMoshe MiSinai, and he grouped them together the way he learned. Rashi to Sukkah 34a speaks this out.

עשר נטיעות ערבה ונסוך המים הלכה למשה מסיני - אלו שלשה נשאלו בבית המדרש מנין להם מן התורה והשיבו שהלכה למשה מסיני הם ושמע השומע וגרסם כסדר ששמעם וכן שיעורים וחציצין ומחיצין (לעיל סוכה דף ה:) שמען השומע וסדרן כסדר ששמען וכן בכל מקום

Rashi says this is true throughout all of the gemarra, whenever you have a grouping of halacha lemoshe misinai's.

EDIT: However, see Gilyonei HaShas by Rav Yosef Engel to Sukkah 11b s.v. ענני הכבוד, who seems to assume like the understanding in the question. He says that according to the Mabit, the Jews weren't in sukkos in the wilderness, as they had the Clouds of Glory. If so, the concept of דופן עקומה, which is a Halacha LeMoshe MiSinai which only applies to a sukkah, didn't apply. As such, he wants to say that the Halacha LeMoshe MiSinais of גוד and לבוד also didn't apply in the wilderness, since they were taught together. Since this was before the beis midrash of Chazal, presumably he means taught together at Sinai.

  • Yay teamwork!!! – DonielF May 28 '20 at 14:03

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