Based on Brachot 45b and Yerushalmi Brachot 5:4/40b, many communities have the custom of saying amen after several of their own brachot. One of the places where some add amen is at the end of the brachot after shema. In the evening, the series of brachot after shema consist of emet v'emuna אמת ואמונה (ending in ga'al yisrael גאל ישראל), hashkiveinu השכיבנו, and yir'u eineinu יראו עיננו (although some omit the latter, and some combine the last two into one bracha).

From what I understand, the amen must come at the end of the series of brachot (see Mishneh Torah Tefillah 1:16–18, Rashi, Rosh, Rabbeinu Yonah, etc on the gemara). Thus, one would expect this amen to come at the end of yir'u eineinu. However, in Minhag Roma as practiced now in Israel (see here, p 110 of the PDF, p 96 on the page), the amen comes at the end of hashkiveinu! Perhaps the intention is to separate between the Talmudic brachot (ga'al yisrael and hashkiveinu) and the Geonic bracha of yir'u eineinu, just like amen after boneh yerushalayim separates the Biblical brachot from the Rabbinic bracha in birkat hamazon?

I'm interested in literature on this point, and whether my guess is correct. In particular, I'm interested in discussions of whether to place amen after hashkiveinu or after yir'u eineinu, in contexts where both brachot are said independently (so, not where the latter is omitted or where it's combined with hashkiveinu, and not where amen is omitted entirely).

  • I'm just saying that it's slightly different in each city. Piattelli's (fantastic) book is not even followed in Rome. For example, in Milan (IIRC) they said it silently only on motzaei shabbat by standing up. I couldn't ever figure out that custom. May 17, 2020 at 17:34
  • @Kazibácsi Do you know what they do follow in Rome and Milan?
    – magicker72
    May 17, 2020 at 17:43
  • 1
    Piattelli moved to Jerusalem, and since he's quite a scholar of the Italian nusach, they do many things that they do not even say in Rome. In Milan they use this book which mainly corresponds to the one edited by R' Dario Disegni (still used). May 17, 2020 at 17:53

1 Answer 1


This is the position of R' Yosef Karo (OC 236:4). See plenty of literature surrounding his writings there.

  • Thanks! He's more expansive in Beit Yosef. By "plenty of literature" do you mean just the Gra, or am I missing commentaries "on the page"?
    – magicker72
    May 17, 2020 at 17:40
  • @magic truthfully I didn't even check all the possible sources there just now, but assumed most of what you seek if it exists should be referenced by or through there. (Along the lines of your suggestion, the most important source in my opinion is actually referenced obliquely earlier in BY OC 51, but it's somewhat speculative to apply it here.)
    – Double AA
    May 17, 2020 at 17:44
  • Yeah, based on OC 51 and other Rishonic discussions, I could guess what was going on here, but wanted something more explicit. Thanks.
    – magicker72
    May 17, 2020 at 17:48

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