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I saw on a series called unorthodox on Netflix that someone referred to something which was mentioned in the Mishnah with "the Talmud says" is this wrong? or at least rare? I am looking for more examples. Here is where it is mentioned.

I would understand if it were mentioned to refer to both the Mishnah and the Gemara but solely referring to the Mishnah without saying Mishnah sounds weird to me.

I'm not looking for the original meaning of the word Talmud but much more interested in the use of this word in religious as well as non religious and even non Jewish sectors.

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    Most people are unaware or don’t recognize the word Mishna as a significant important old Jewish text. Talmud is much more universally recognizable. – Dr. Shmuel Apr 21 at 14:00
  • @Dr.Shmuel I was considering this as well, do you have any examples of this phenomenal? Maybe then you can post this comment as an answer? thanks! – Chagai Friedlander Apr 21 at 17:31
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If you are quoting something from the Mishnah and the Talmud expounds on it then yes, you should be able to say "the Talmud says".

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  • Thanks for your answer! What if you are only quoting something from the Mishnah which the Talmud does not expound on? – Chagai Friedlander Apr 21 at 17:28
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Rabbi Hanoch Albek, at introduction to Talmud (page 3)" says:

משמעות 'תלמוד' היא לימוד , פירוש , טעם , סברה , כמפורש בסדר תנאים ואמוראים..."תלמודא זה סברה שהתלמידים האחרונים לומדים בדברי הראשונים הסתומים כדי לפרשם וליתן בהם טעם , ואותו דקדוק נקרא תלמוד"

Talmud is learning, interpretation, explanation, resolve, like it's says on Seder Tannaim Ve'Amoraim...: "Talmuda is the resolve\interpretation that the later students understand at their master's unclear teaching, and that resolve is called Talmud"

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  • Thanks for your answer but I'm looking for the use of the word and not the origin. – Chagai Friedlander Apr 20 at 8:18
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    The Talmud contains the Mishnah and the Gemarra, so why not refer to a mishnah as "The Talmud says"??? – Josh K Apr 20 at 10:12
  • @JoshK The question is not why it's if, I would like some examples of people referring to the Mishnah as the Talmud and not as the Mishnah... – Chagai Friedlander Apr 20 at 11:23
  • @Joshk the quote at hand is not part of the Talmud. It is from the ethics of fathers – Dr. Shmuel Apr 21 at 17:40
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Since parts of the Mishnah and other pre-Talmud texts are not included in the Mishnah itself, an author may alter his reference. See The Real Messiah by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, pg. 38:

In contrast to this, the Rabbis, whom Jesus hated so much, did not place any such limitations on G-d’s love. It was the Rabbis of the Talmud who made the statement (Tosefta, Sanhedrin 13), “The righteous of all nations have a share in the World to Come.” They saw G-d’s love as available to all people, and not only to Jews.

Thus, the term Talmud is altered to include a broader body of texts which are not part of the strict Babylonian and Palestinian Talmud cannons.

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