This story https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1819358/tzaddik-of-bnei-brak-appears-in-dream-to-fellow-kovno-ghetto-survivor-im-already-in-gan-eden.html

Got me thinking if it’s known that the person has gone to Gan Eden does those who say Kaddish need to continue saying it?

  • Kaddish is about the grieving and bereavement period for those who are left behind, accepting Hashem's kingship. Why would a personal loss be affected by the dream? The dead person is still missed. – rosends Jan 8 at 11:21
  • @rosends, not exactly. We say Kaddish for a year because that it the time that a wicked person is in gehenom for, but we cut that down to eleven months to not say that the deceased was wicked. Why Kaddish? As you said. – Mordechai Jan 8 at 21:00
  • "if it's known"? How can anyone know that about anyone for certain? – Ray Butterworth Jan 9 at 1:44

Given that we say kaddish on the yahrtzeit even though the neshama is assumed to be in Gan Eden, we should say kaddish for the first 11 months in any case. We would be saying kaddish so that the neshama should have an aliyah no matter how small any aveiros might be or even if the neshama immediately is placed at an initial level in Gan Eden. I am assuming that this is a parent that you are saying kaddish for as anyone else would not require you to say kaddish at all.

  • Siblings, wife, Husband, I think for 30 days. This question is purely theoretical. – Daniel Ross Jan 9 at 2:30
  • @DanielRoss I was assuming that it involved the year. However, my point was that even within Gan Eden there are levels and we want to help the neshama move up. – sabbahillel Jan 9 at 3:16

First and foremost we do not rely on dreams since many times they are nonsensical. In fact ,the Noda B'Yehuda writes in Yoreh Deah Tinyana siman 30 he notes that dreams are not reliable and writes " where do we ever see halacha learned from a dream!?!?".further in the teshuva he writes " to bring a proof from a dream is nonsense and nothing at all".

Besides for the reason above one of the reason why the kaadish was instituted for a mourner was to show that the family accepts the loss of their family member by sanctifying HaShems name in a public forum,and show that they still believe in G-d.

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    Both this linked question and the answers are in conflict with your assumption concerning dreams. judaism.stackexchange.com/q/14912/7303 – Yaacov Deane Jan 8 at 16:58
  • Mine or the Noda BYehuda? – sam Jan 8 at 17:51
  • In that teshuvos the NB himself says this regarding Rishonim,so ur question is on the NB,and I am well aware of Shu"t Min Hashmayim (I in fact own one) ,that's why I gave another possible reason – sam Jan 8 at 17:54
  • As I’m looking over this response about the kashrut of this particular fish, the NB doesn’t seem to know what to make of dreams (particularly after looking at the notes). It sounds more like he is saying that the way the questioner was applying that specific reference was inappropriate, not that the NB was making a blanket statement that dreams are never used in deciding halacha. – Yaacov Deane Jan 8 at 23:44
  • You are entitled to your opinion, but I think you are reading the teshuva incorrectly just like you believe I am reading incorrectly – sam Jan 9 at 0:52

While dreams "can" be prophetic, the likelihood of them being so is low for the average person. The reality is we aren't supposed to take dreams this seriously as we're advised the majority of our dreams are either nonsense, reflections of the previous day, or expressing issues within ourselves.

There is actually a bit discussed about the topic in the Talmud. The readings themselves are quite interesting but they get touched upon in this article found on Aish.

The general consensus is we should assume a dream is just a dream.

A prophetic dream can certainly exist but we can't actually know it's a prophecy until it happens. This creates a predicament in your scenario.

  • If you say Kaddish, you're recognizing your own fallibility as a person. You aren't assuming prophecy but assuming you're human and doing what all humans should do. You say Kaddish because you can't actually know for sure.

  • If you don't say Kaddish and assume the dream was true, you're making an assumption which you have no true proof of. The dream may have made you feel secure in the idea your loved one is in a better place but you don't actually know for sure. You then use that assumption to ignore the responsibility of saying Kaddish.

Dreams are odd because they can be related to a mix of things.

  • The food you ate before bed.

  • Anticipation of an upcoming good/bad event.

  • Sickness fueling odd dreams (a fever dream).

  • etc.

You would be advised to say Kaddish because you can't actually know. If the dream wasn't prophetic and simply created through a subconscious means or external stimuli, you would be ignoring the need to say Kaddish. That isn't an assumption worth making.

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    See the Noda BeYehuda about dreams ,I quote it in one of the answers on this site. – sam Jan 8 at 3:40
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    I don't see how this answers the question. The question was "if it’s known that the person has gone to Gan Eden does [sic] those who say Kaddish need to continue saying it?". Not "does such a dream really tell me that the person has gone to Gan Eden?". – msh210 Jan 8 at 13:55
  • @msh210 The question cites a dream as evidence. You have no ability to claim a dream as evidence. So the question onto itself is based on a flawed premise. – Avri Jan 8 at 23:05
  • No, @Avri, the question cites a dream as an interesting story that got the asker thinking. The existence of the dream is not evidence to anything in the question, nor is it a premise of the question. The question is "if it’s known that the person has gone to Gan Eden does [sic] those who say Kaddish need to continue saying it?": it doesn't even mention a dream. A dream is discussed only in the story that got the asker thinking. – msh210 Jan 9 at 0:03
  • "if it’s known that the person has gone to Gan Eden" - You can't know that. None of us can know that. The evidence being used for that assumption is a dream, which is the basis of the story. That's the point I'm making. The story cites the fact a man appeared in a dream and said "I'm in Gan Eden". That's why I'm saying it's a flawed premise to begin with. – Avri Jan 9 at 2:50

The source for saying Kaddish for the deceased is from Kalla Rabbasi 2:9 (as mentioned by the Darchei Moshe Y.D. 376:8):

ט ברייתא קטנים מקבלים פני שכינה שנאמר זרע יעבדנו יסופר לה׳ לדור: [גמ׳] איבעיא להו מכפרין עון אבות או לא, ת״ש דר׳ עקיבא נפק לההוא אתרא אשכחיה לההוא גברא דהוי דרי טונא אכתפיה ולא הוה מצי לסגויי ביה והוה צוח ומתאנח, א״ל מאי עבידתיך א״ל לא שבקנא איסורא דלא עבידנא בההיא עלמא ועכשיו איכא נטורין עילוון ולא שבקין לי דאינוח א״ל רבי עקיבא שבקת ברא א״ל בחייך לא תשלין דדחילנא ממלאכי דמחו לי בפולסי דנורא ואמרין לי אמאי לא תיתי בפריע א״ל אימא ליה דקא ניחותך, א״ל שבקית אתתא מעברתא אזל ר׳ עקיבא עאל לההיא מדינתא, אמר להו בריה דפלוני היכא (ליה) אמרו ליה יעקר זכרו דההוא שחיק עצמות א״ל אמאי אמרו ליה ההוא לסטים אכל אינשי ומצער בריתא ולא עוד אלא שבא על נערה המאורסה ביום הכפורים. אזל לביתיה אשכח אתתיה מעוברתא נטרה עד דילדה , אזל מהליה לכי גדל אוקמי׳ בבי כנישתא לברוכי בקהלא לימים אזל ר׳ עקיבא לההוא אתרא איתחזי ליה א״ל תנוח דעתך שהנחת את דעתי:

To summarize, Rebbi Akiva saw a dead man suffering from his punishment, and he wanted to save the dead man from his suffering. To do that he found the dead man's son, and had him say berachos for the congregation. Rebbi Akiva later found that the dead man was settled.

The Beis Yosef brings a similar story from the Zohar where the son says Kaddish or the Haftarah.

According to this the whole purpose of saying Kaddish is to bring the deceased to Gan Eden, and if one were to know that he is already there , then there would be no point.

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