3

Does anyone have any idea, what does the Taz in Yoreh Deah 182:1 mean? I see the Hagohas haTaz tries to elaborate, but I really don’t understand that either. Is he trying to differentiate between razoring the head and the rest of the body, or maybe between razoring just one part of a limb?

  • Welcome to MiYodeya Dov and thanks for this first question. Can I recommend you take the tour to get a sense of how the site works? Great to have you learn with us! – mbloch Dec 11 '19 at 10:25
  • 2
    There is an error in the text in sefaria בכל עקום instead of בכל מקום I corrected it – kouty Dec 11 '19 at 11:12
  • 1
    Please cite the source in the question. Links always break and the question becomes obslete. – Al Berko Dec 11 '19 at 14:06
  • I'm glad to see such advanced questions. Can you next time share some background and try to grapple with the text? – MDjava Dec 12 '19 at 14:43
2

It had just stated that for a man to shave his underarms or pubic area would be prohibited as a gender-bending practice. The Taz's reading of the next line is "she'ar" -- but one may shave any other part of their body with a razor-like scissor.

A variant text would be sei'ar -- which would read: no shaving underarm or pubic with a razor-like scissors; but plain old scissors can be used on any hair on the body.

| improve this answer | |
  • I dont understand! Theres two גירסת in the shulchan aruch? – dov kinderman Dec 11 '19 at 11:02
  • 3
    Your explanation is of Taz #2, but I think he's asking about Taz #1 (he wrote "I see the Hagohas haTaz tries to elaborate" which is on #1) – b a Dec 11 '19 at 11:48
  • 1
    @dovkinderman It happens, you know... even in the bible... – Alaychem goes to Codidact Dec 11 '19 at 12:10
  • 1
    As @ba said you don't answer the OP's question. erase your answer. – Alaychem goes to Codidact Dec 11 '19 at 13:46
2

Good question, it takes a real effort to understand what he meant

First, you should read the sources that the T"Z talks about!

At the end of the last chapter, the T"Z quotes the Beis Yossef the brings Rabinu Yona. He says the shaving with razor is forbidden anywhere.

The T"Z states that this opinion disagrees the opinion in the Tur in our chapter.

Now, what opinion the Tur talks about?

The Hagohas haTaz explanation:

העברת תער בשאר הגוף ובית השחי ובית הערוה, פר"ת שדינן שוה, שאסורין בתער ומותרין במספריים

Shaving with razor the rest of the body is like the armpit and the pubic, it's forbidden with razor but allowed with scissors.

The Hagohas haTaz explains that this rule only apply if you shave your entire body, aside from the head with razor - then it's forbidden, but one region is OK!!
He understands "rest of the body" - "the entire rest of the body", not "any part from the rest of the body", see the end of his chapter.

So, he tries to differentiate one region from the entire body, aside from the head.

| improve this answer | |
2

The Taz refers to a disagreement reported by the Tur between Rabenu Tam and others regarding shaving the body with a blade and with scissors.

The Tur;

העברת תער בשאר הגוף ובית השחי ובית הערוה,‏

פר"ת שדינן שוה, שאסורין בתער ומותרין במספריים.‏

וי"א דוקא בשאר הגוף מותר במספריים, אבל של בית השחי ושל בית הערוה אסורין אפילו במספריים. וכן הוא מסקנת אדוני אבי הרא"ש ז"ל.‏

  1. Regarding underharm and pubic area. For Rabenu Tam, to shave with scissors is permitted, with a blade it's prohibited. Following the second opinion it's prohibited even with scissors.
  2. Regarding the last parts of the body, except for the head, Rabenu Tam prohibits with a blade and the second opinion allows with scissors and prohibits with a blade.

The Taz says refers the opinion of Rabenu Yona quoted in Bet Yosef suman 181

וכ"כ ה"ר יונה … אבל אסרו חכמים להעביר שער בתער בכ"מ בגוף ואפי' על זרועותיו לפי שדומה לתיקון הנשים אבל מותר להעבירו במספרים עכ"ל

The Taz says that the line of Rabenu Yona differs from the the two opinion quoted by the Tur.

But at first glance, this is the second opinion of the Tur. This difficulty is addressed by the Hagahot Hataz.

So, the Hagahot Hataz explains that the Taz understands that since in the Tur when the non pubic and axillary area is treated, there is no mention for partial surface, the prohibition to shave the body with a blade regards only the case in which the entire surface of the body is shaved (here we don't consider the head that have special rules for hairs and beard). But to shave one area, e.g. the chest or forearms is permitted. Since, the opinion of Rabenu Yona is a third opinion because he says that to shave arms is prohibited with a blade.

Let's examine the Hagaot Hataz.

כי הטור לא זכר אבר בשאר הגוף אלא סתם בכל הגוף והיינו כל הגוף דהוא מותר במספריים

The Tur didn't address the case in which they shave one member of the last part of the body. i.e. an area that is not the pubis or the axillary.

כדאיתא בגמרא מקיל אדם בכל גופו וכו' הוא הדין נמי לענין איסור תער ותו

The Tur uses the language of the Gemara, "Rab said: A man may thin [the hair of] his whole body with a razor." and this is true even for the rule of shaving with a blade

דאם נתפרש מה שכתב הטור בשאר הגוף היינו אפילו מקצת ממנו אפילו לא אבר שלם דאם לא כן היה לו להזכיר אחד מן האברים

If we try to explain the Tur wrote "the last body" means "one part of the last body", even a single part of the body, even a part of a member, it's wrong, because, to be clear, he must to mention "one of the members"

וזו ודאי שרי אפילו בתער אפילו בשחיוערוה ואפילו גבי זקן כמו דמשמע מדברי הטור סימן קפ"א בשם הרא"ש

And to shave a part of a member (a part of a specific area) is obviously permitted, even for the axillary area and the pubic area, and even for the beard, as we understand from the words of the Tur in siman 181 in name of the Rosh

אלא ודאי דעל כל הגוף קאמר

So, obviously, the Tur means the whole body

והיינו בלא הראש דאילו עם הראש אין זה יפוי כמו שאכתוב בסמוך ומשום הכי דוקא יש איסור בתע

And when he wrote the body, this doesn't include the head, because the prohibition to shave the body is a prohibition to make himself beautiful; and for this reason, for the last body the prohibition is only with a blade (tha makes the skin smooth).

| improve this answer | |
  • Also, you force that R"Y disagrees only with the 2nd opinion , but in the Tur it says דעות, not דעה. see my answer. – Alaychem goes to Codidact Dec 11 '19 at 13:59
  • For Rabenu Tam fixed. – kouty Dec 11 '19 at 14:15
  • Rabenu Tam disagrees with the pshat of Rabenu Tam in the second opinion – kouty Dec 11 '19 at 14:15
  • Did you mean "Rabenu Yona disagrees with..." ? anyway. I don't think so. I think That Hagahot Htaz understand immediately that the Tur (both opinions) talks about the entire body only. He does not discuss over it. That's the difference between our answers. – Alaychem goes to Codidact Dec 12 '19 at 8:33
  • He disagrees with both opinions and obviously the Taz thinks that there is no discrepancy between the both opinions in the Tur because they are not different regarding the lack of reference to one isolated arm or leg – kouty Dec 12 '19 at 9:16

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .