If a chattan (groom) is present in shul during the week after marriage, the entire minyan does not say Tachanun.

However, if an aveil (mourner) is present in shul during his week of shiva, the congregation does say Tachanun but the aveil doesn't.

What happens if both are in shul simultaneously? Which rules are followed?


2 Answers 2


This question is based on a false premise: That the congregation says Tachanun because the Aveil is present.

if an aveil (mourner) is present in shul during his week of shiva, the congregation does say Tachanun but the aveil doesn't.

It's the opposite: If an Aveil davens at home in a Minyan, the entire Minyan doesn't say Tachanun, because he can't. Since it is his home (usually, or it's his current abode) they have to follow him.

But, in shul, he doesn't have the "power" to prevent others from saying Tachanun, so they ignore his presence.

A Chattan and Mohel, on the other hand, do have the "power" to prevent others from saying Tachanun. Probably because everybody wants to join in the Simcha.

I guess nobody asked the Aveil to come to shul and they have no intention of joining in his mourning. (Actually, he's not even allowed to come to shul unless he can't gather a Minyan at home.)

  • 1
    Any sources for your (quite plausible) claim? Nov 27, 2019 at 9:59
  • @Kazibácsi - which one? Each of the last 3 paragraphs are an explicit halacha in the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch. Nov 27, 2019 at 15:36
  • Then link it please! Nov 27, 2019 at 16:38

If an Aveil is in Shul during the month of Nissan when Tachanun is not said, or if an Aveil is in Shul on Rosh Chodesh when no Tachanun is said, then no Tachanun is said by all, remains the rule. The rule of saying Tachanun when an Aveil is present is only that an Aveil does not make the Shul not say Tachanun. Thus in the case of a Chassan and an Aveil being present no Tachanun would be said by anyone.

  • So, essentially, the shul precedent rules. I.e., if there's already a reason not to say Tachanun, the presence of an aveil can't overrule it, right?
    – DanF
    Nov 27, 2019 at 3:45
  • 2
    @DanF The presence of an avel simply has no impact at all on whether or not the shul says tachanun. They just do whatever they would have done had the avel not been there.
    – Joel K
    Nov 27, 2019 at 4:17
  • Logically יש תשובה maybe that a zman is stronger than the presence of an avel. But if there is an avel and a chatan, the problem is different. But if you have source it's different.אם הלכה נקבל ואם לדין יש תשובה
    – kouty
    Nov 27, 2019 at 4:28

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