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For example: Someone tells his son not to steal, and it says in the Torah not to steal. This kid goes out and steals anyway, and his parents find out.

Is he chayav for both stealing and not listening to his parents (meaning he has to ask forgiveness from them, and the person he stole from before Yom Kippur) or is he just chayav for stealing (because what his parents said is battul to the Torah commandment; and therefore he only has to ask forgiveness of the person he stole from)?

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    +1, intriguing question. I wonder if this is related to the discussion as to whether a Neder/shavua can forbid something already forbidden by the Torah, an issue which is an Amoraic dispute IIRC. – DonielF Oct 10 at 0:28
  • Al pi sevarah I would say it depends why the parent tells him not to steal. If he says because the Torah says so then its against the Torah so one prohibition, but if the father is worried about his reputation as well,then two possibly – sam Oct 10 at 3:23
  • @DonielF you’re probably right that it’s related. It may very well even be the same Halacha for the same reason (whatever that is) – Lo ani Oct 10 at 9:26
  • @sam so you’re saying that if the parent has his own separate reason for telling his son not to steal, then it’s two sins? So we base it off of the intent, not the action? – Lo ani Oct 10 at 9:27
  • Okay, so I was sort of remembering that discussion correctly. It starts at the bottom of Shavuos 23b. According to Rav, Shmuel, and R’ Yochanan, you’re only liable for the shevua if you included both things which are permissible and things which are forbidden. According to Reish Lakish, the case is one of Chatzi Shiur. According to everyone if the shevua is identical to the issur d’Oraisa it doesn’t do anything. – DonielF Oct 10 at 11:21

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