In this answer, a strange and rather fascinating story is quoted from the Seder Hadoros:

Seder Hadoros (year 4930) brings the story of an argument between Rabeynu Tam and other Rishonim regarding how one should tie the knot of the Tefillin. Eventually, Moshe Rabeynu himself is called down from heaven and asked his opinion. He testifies that he personally saw the back of Hashem's Tefillin shel Rosh, but Rabeynu Tam is not persuaded. In the words of the Seder Hadoros: "Rabeynu Tam got up like a lion and said Moshe Rabeynu you are mistaken!".

Does anyone have a source for this story, and/or any record of discussion regarding the veracity and validity of this story?

  • I'm sure you saw the comment on that answer citing sources that this story is apikorsus.
    – user6591
    Jul 17, 2019 at 9:20
  • 1
    Seder Haddorot quotes מ' הג"מ עזריאל טרביטו ספר גדול קשור בו סודות ועניני קבלה. I couldn't find any information on him. Also, this might have been an inspiration for the story.
    – b a
    Jul 17, 2019 at 9:28
  • "In Nefesh Harav pg 45-46, R. Hershel Schachter writes that he heard from R. Soloveitchik in the name of R. Chaim that the first story that you bring from the Seder Hadoros is apikorsus" - Comment from הנער הזה on linked question
    – chortkov2
    Jul 17, 2019 at 9:32
  • Story is much more exciting in the original than quoted in the linked answer...
    – chortkov2
    Jul 17, 2019 at 9:43
  • Since the knot of the tefillin shel rosh is 'Halacha l'Moshe mi'Sinai', it's difficult to imagine that Rabbeinu Tam would have said such a thing. See Ritva to Eruvin 97a:2 and Menachot 35b said in the name of Rav. Jul 17, 2019 at 19:08

1 Answer 1


You can read this in Seder HaDorot, volume i, page 208, from R' Yechiel Heilprin. The link is to HebrewBooks.org, but you can also read a transcription of the story here.

Heilprin begins by writing :

source for story

So, if I understand correctly, he saw this in a sefer in the library of R' Aziel Tarbito, and the version came from the midrash of R' Shmuel b'R' Eliyahu of Ibra (??)ץ

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