1

When the Mishna or Gemara says that someone has no portion in the world to come, is that referring to his body or soul?

In the context of belief in gilgulim, a soul can be reincarnated many times into various bodies. Let's say the soul gets reincarnated 5 times - the first 4 were mostly righteous but had to come back to fix something, but in the 5th he did something that caused him to lose his cheilek in olam haba. Does that mean the first 4 also lose it (since it's the same soul)? Or maybe somehow those four bodies get a portion in the world to come, since they were righteous - but if so what soul will they have?

  • 1
    Your final line is answered here: judaism.stackexchange.com/q/8334. – DonielF May 30 at 17:25
  • According to the accepted answer there, it seems the soul gets portioned into components : "Ultimately, each component of the soul will be resurrected in the body which served as its host.". If so, then it's entirely plausible that here the components that were in the first four bodies will be resurrected with those bodies, while the 5th component (and body) will not be. – user9806 May 30 at 17:37
  • The Q is good and I +1ed it, but my sincere advice - consider all statements about Olam Habah as seeking educational goal only. Nobody truly knew or knows what it is, what a soul is, what reincarnation is and what T'hias Hameisim is either. Rabbis brought it to distant us from sinning. G-d has the exclusive right to decide on what will happen. – Al Berko May 30 at 21:57
  • Acc. to Zohar, a Jewish soul can never be cut off because it never sins to its root, there's always a part that remains pure. So either a person is cut off but he's not a Jew or there's no cutting off for Jews and it's only a warning. – Al Berko May 30 at 22:05
  • 1
    @JoshK sorry to spoil the party, please don't be mad. A large part of Rabbinical statements/speculations is educational, just like you warn your kids - if you stick your fingers in the socket you'll die, but you know he won't. the Gemmorah asks what the Kores is and provides a couple of options NONE of which includes cutting off. Zohar explains it's practically impossible for the [truly] Jewish soul. This follows the verse "אם אחפץ במות הרשע כי אם בשוב רשע מדרכו וחיה" - there's no point in losing a sinner but in repenting. – Al Berko May 31 at 7:42
1

Kol israel yesh lahem heilek leoilom habo! All Jews have a portion in the world to come (vias haMoshaich). When it is written that there are those who don’t it means that those who don’t will also be resurrected and be in oilom habo, but they will be last to come to life. That would be considered as a punishment since everyone else will see that they came late and understand that it’s because of Aveiros. But tachles... All incarnations return.

  • Welcome to MiYodeya and thanks for this answer. Since MY is different from other sites you might be used to, see here for a guide which might help understand the site. See in particular the focus on sources. Great to have you learn with us! – mbloch Jun 30 at 8:34
  • A source would greatly enhance the validity of this answer!! – Danny Schoemann Jul 30 at 11:27
0

Let’s say that someone lost his Olam Haba in the final moments of his life. Would you say it’s not fair to his first eight decades that his final one causes them to lose their portion? No - it’s the same person. If you accept the concept of reincarnation, you have to think about it similarly: we perceive them as five people scattered across time, but they’re actually the same person.

  • Well that was really my question - are reincarnated people the same person scattered across time, or are they different people who happen to have the same soul. I suppose what underlies this is whether "a person" is just a soul, or a soul+body composite. – user9806 May 30 at 17:33
  • And speaking of fairness...It's actually not unreasonable to say that if one lives for 80 years as a really righteous person and then does one thing that causes them to lose their portion, that it's unfair to those 80 first years of his life and effort. Do you not agree? – user9806 May 30 at 17:36
  • @user9806 Such a person certainly won’t lose their reward earned over their life; they just won’t get it in the next world. – DonielF May 30 at 17:38
  • Where will he get that reward if not in the next world? (Remember, we're supposing he didn't yet get it in this world since, being righteous, he was slated for the world to come. And he can't/is unlikely to get it in this world, since he's already very old. (To make this point uncontested, we can assume he does the sin on the last day of his life). – user9806 May 30 at 18:32
  • 1
    @user9806 Hashem is able to do anything. He can give out one’s full reward even in his final day. – DonielF May 30 at 18:35

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .