3 Clarified misleading sentence; added link.
source | link

I thought to answer as follows:

When the Gemara answers that Rav is a tanna, that is when the question is on Rav alone. In this case the question is on a joint statement of Rav and Shmuel. (Whether there is also a concept of "Shmuel is a tanna" as well is subject to debate, but for the sake of this answer let's assume that there isn't.) Thus even if the Gemara were to answer here that Rav is a tanna, it wouldn't help for Shmuel, who would still be refuted.

Now one could retort that if Shmuel is agreeing with Rav and Rav is a tanna then Shmuel should be on safe ground. However, in Ketubot 8a the sameKetubot 8a there is a statement that is cited first in the name of Rav and then in the name of R. Yochanan. When the Gemara challenges the statement of Rav it answers that Rav is a tanna, but when it challenges the statement of R. Yochanan it gives a different answer. Tosafot there asks why R. Yochanan couldn't defend himself by saying that he agrees with Rav who is a tanna. Tosafot answers that R. Yochanan frequently argues with Rav, which shows that even if Rav considers himself a tanna R. Yochanan does not consider Rav to be a tanna. If that is the case then R. Yochanan cannot now hide behind Rav, saying that he is a tanna.

Tosafot Ketubot 8a s.v. Rav

ואין להקשות דאמאי לא משני רבי יוחנן אנא דאמרי כרב דתנא הוא דרבי יוחנן לא היה מחזיק רב כתנא דפליג עליו בכל דוכתא

Here, too, then, Shmuel would not be able to defend himself by saying that Rav is a tanna, because Shmuel frequently argues with Rav. Thus, in this case the concept of "Rav is a tanna" wouldn't help because Shmuel would still be refuted.


I subsequently found that R. Chizkiya Medini says that R. Yisrael Dushwitzky wrote to him giving this exact explanation to answer your question:

Sedei Chemed (entry for "Rav Tanna Hu U'Palig")

ועל זה כתב לי הרב המאוה"ג מוהר"ר ישראל דישאוויצקי מעיר מאהליב דינפער יצ"ו וזה לשונו במכתב לחזקיהו דף ט"ז ע"ד העיר כת"ר שליט"א בהא דברכות ל"ז א' דאמרינן תיובתא דרב ושמואל תיובתא האיך מסיק הש"ס בתיובתא ולא משנינן כבעלמא רב תנא הוא ופליג ולפי עניות דעתי פשוט דבודאי על רב לא הוה סלקינן בתיובתא דמצינן לשנויי רב תנא הוא ופליג רק בשביל שמואל סלקינן בתיובתא ולא הוה מצינן לשנויי ושמואל אמר לך אנא דאמרי כרב דתנא הוא דהא שמואל לא היה מחזיק את רב לתנא מדפליג עליה בכל דוכתא וחזון כזה נמצא ממש בתוספות כתובות ח' ע"א גבי ר' יוחנן והרבה הארכתי בכל זה בספרי חמדת ישראל עד כאן לשונו יצ"ו

I thought to answer as follows:

When the Gemara answers that Rav is a tanna, that is when the question is on Rav alone. In this case the question is on a joint statement of Rav and Shmuel. (Whether there is also a concept of "Shmuel is a tanna" as well is subject to debate, but for the sake of this answer let's assume that there isn't.) Thus even if the Gemara were to answer here that Rav is a tanna, it wouldn't help for Shmuel, who would still be refuted.

Now one could retort that if Shmuel is agreeing with Rav and Rav is a tanna then Shmuel should be on safe ground. However, in Ketubot 8a the same statement is cited first in the name of Rav and then in the name of R. Yochanan. When the Gemara challenges the statement of Rav it answers that Rav is a tanna, but when it challenges the statement of R. Yochanan it gives a different answer. Tosafot there asks why R. Yochanan couldn't defend himself by saying that he agrees with Rav who is a tanna. Tosafot answers that R. Yochanan frequently argues with Rav, which shows that even if Rav considers himself a tanna R. Yochanan does not consider Rav to be a tanna. If that is the case then R. Yochanan cannot now hide behind Rav, saying that he is a tanna.

Tosafot Ketubot 8a s.v. Rav

ואין להקשות דאמאי לא משני רבי יוחנן אנא דאמרי כרב דתנא הוא דרבי יוחנן לא היה מחזיק רב כתנא דפליג עליו בכל דוכתא

Here, too, then, Shmuel would not be able to defend himself by saying that Rav is a tanna, because Shmuel frequently argues with Rav. Thus, in this case the concept of "Rav is a tanna" wouldn't help because Shmuel would still be refuted.


I subsequently found that R. Chizkiya Medini says that R. Yisrael Dushwitzky wrote to him giving this exact explanation to answer your question:

Sedei Chemed (entry for "Rav Tanna Hu U'Palig")

ועל זה כתב לי הרב המאוה"ג מוהר"ר ישראל דישאוויצקי מעיר מאהליב דינפער יצ"ו וזה לשונו במכתב לחזקיהו דף ט"ז ע"ד העיר כת"ר שליט"א בהא דברכות ל"ז א' דאמרינן תיובתא דרב ושמואל תיובתא האיך מסיק הש"ס בתיובתא ולא משנינן כבעלמא רב תנא הוא ופליג ולפי עניות דעתי פשוט דבודאי על רב לא הוה סלקינן בתיובתא דמצינן לשנויי רב תנא הוא ופליג רק בשביל שמואל סלקינן בתיובתא ולא הוה מצינן לשנויי ושמואל אמר לך אנא דאמרי כרב דתנא הוא דהא שמואל לא היה מחזיק את רב לתנא מדפליג עליה בכל דוכתא וחזון כזה נמצא ממש בתוספות כתובות ח' ע"א גבי ר' יוחנן והרבה הארכתי בכל זה בספרי חמדת ישראל עד כאן לשונו יצ"ו

I thought to answer as follows:

When the Gemara answers that Rav is a tanna, that is when the question is on Rav alone. In this case the question is on a joint statement of Rav and Shmuel. (Whether there is also a concept of "Shmuel is a tanna" as well is subject to debate, but for the sake of this answer let's assume that there isn't.) Thus even if the Gemara were to answer here that Rav is a tanna, it wouldn't help for Shmuel, who would still be refuted.

Now one could retort that if Shmuel is agreeing with Rav and Rav is a tanna then Shmuel should be on safe ground. However, in Ketubot 8a there is a statement that is cited first in the name of Rav and then in the name of R. Yochanan. When the Gemara challenges the statement of Rav it answers that Rav is a tanna, but when it challenges the statement of R. Yochanan it gives a different answer. Tosafot there asks why R. Yochanan couldn't defend himself by saying that he agrees with Rav who is a tanna. Tosafot answers that R. Yochanan frequently argues with Rav, which shows that even if Rav considers himself a tanna R. Yochanan does not consider Rav to be a tanna. If that is the case then R. Yochanan cannot now hide behind Rav, saying that he is a tanna.

Tosafot Ketubot 8a s.v. Rav

ואין להקשות דאמאי לא משני רבי יוחנן אנא דאמרי כרב דתנא הוא דרבי יוחנן לא היה מחזיק רב כתנא דפליג עליו בכל דוכתא

Here, too, then, Shmuel would not be able to defend himself by saying that Rav is a tanna, because Shmuel frequently argues with Rav. Thus, in this case the concept of "Rav is a tanna" wouldn't help because Shmuel would still be refuted.


I subsequently found that R. Chizkiya Medini says that R. Yisrael Dushwitzky wrote to him giving this exact explanation to answer your question:

Sedei Chemed (entry for "Rav Tanna Hu U'Palig")

ועל זה כתב לי הרב המאוה"ג מוהר"ר ישראל דישאוויצקי מעיר מאהליב דינפער יצ"ו וזה לשונו במכתב לחזקיהו דף ט"ז ע"ד העיר כת"ר שליט"א בהא דברכות ל"ז א' דאמרינן תיובתא דרב ושמואל תיובתא האיך מסיק הש"ס בתיובתא ולא משנינן כבעלמא רב תנא הוא ופליג ולפי עניות דעתי פשוט דבודאי על רב לא הוה סלקינן בתיובתא דמצינן לשנויי רב תנא הוא ופליג רק בשביל שמואל סלקינן בתיובתא ולא הוה מצינן לשנויי ושמואל אמר לך אנא דאמרי כרב דתנא הוא דהא שמואל לא היה מחזיק את רב לתנא מדפליג עליה בכל דוכתא וחזון כזה נמצא ממש בתוספות כתובות ח' ע"א גבי ר' יוחנן והרבה הארכתי בכל זה בספרי חמדת ישראל עד כאן לשונו יצ"ו

2 deleted 1 character in body
source | link

I thought to answer as follows:

When the Gemara answers that Rav is a tanna, that is when the question is on Rav alone. In this case the question is on a joint statement of Rav and Shmuel. (Whether there is also a concept of "Shmuel is a tanna" as well is subject to debate, but for the sake of this answer let's assume that there isn't.) Thus even if the Gemara were to answer here that Rav is a tanna, it wouldn't help for Shmuel, who would still be refuted.

Now one could retort that if Shmuel is agreeing with Rav and Rav is a tanna then Shmuel should be on safe ground. However, in Ketubot 8a the same statement is cited first in the name of Rav anddand then in the name of R. Yochanan. When the Gemara challenges the statement of Rav it answers that Rav is a tanna, but when it challenges the statement of R. Yochanan it gives a different answer. Tosafot there asks why R. Yochanan couldn't defend himself by saying that he agrees with Rav who is a tanna. Tosafot answers that R. Yochanan frequently argues with Rav, which shows that even if Rav considers himself a tanna R. Yochanan does not consider Rav to be a tanna. If that is the case then R. Yochanan cannot now hide behind Rav, saying that he is a tanna.

Tosafot Ketubot 8a s.v. Rav

ואין להקשות דאמאי לא משני רבי יוחנן אנא דאמרי כרב דתנא הוא דרבי יוחנן לא היה מחזיק רב כתנא דפליג עליו בכל דוכתא

Here, too, then, Shmuel would not be able to defend himself by saying that Rav is a tanna, because Shmuel frequently argues with Rav. Thus, in this case the concept of "Rav is a tanna" wouldn't help because Shmuel would still be refuted.


I subsequently found that R. Chizkiya Medini says that R. Yisrael Dushwitzky wrote to him giving this exact explanation to answer your question:

Sedei Chemed (entry for "Rav Tanna Hu U'Palig")

ועל זה כתב לי הרב המאוה"ג מוהר"ר ישראל דישאוויצקי מעיר מאהליב דינפער יצ"ו וזה לשונו במכתב לחזקיהו דף ט"ז ע"ד העיר כת"ר שליט"א בהא דברכות ל"ז א' דאמרינן תיובתא דרב ושמואל תיובתא האיך מסיק הש"ס בתיובתא ולא משנינן כבעלמא רב תנא הוא ופליג ולפי עניות דעתי פשוט דבודאי על רב לא הוה סלקינן בתיובתא דמצינן לשנויי רב תנא הוא ופליג רק בשביל שמואל סלקינן בתיובתא ולא הוה מצינן לשנויי ושמואל אמר לך אנא דאמרי כרב דתנא הוא דהא שמואל לא היה מחזיק את רב לתנא מדפליג עליה בכל דוכתא וחזון כזה נמצא ממש בתוספות כתובות ח' ע"א גבי ר' יוחנן והרבה הארכתי בכל זה בספרי חמדת ישראל עד כאן לשונו יצ"ו

I thought to answer as follows:

When the Gemara answers that Rav is a tanna, that is when the question is on Rav alone. In this case the question is on a joint statement of Rav and Shmuel. (Whether there is also a concept of "Shmuel is a tanna" as well is subject to debate, but for the sake of this answer let's assume that there isn't.) Thus even if the Gemara were to answer here that Rav is a tanna, it wouldn't help for Shmuel, who would still be refuted.

Now one could retort that if Shmuel is agreeing with Rav and Rav is a tanna then Shmuel should be on safe ground. However, in Ketubot 8a the same statement is cited first in the name of Rav andd then in the name of R. Yochanan. When the Gemara challenges the statement of Rav it answers that Rav is a tanna, but when it challenges the statement of R. Yochanan it gives a different answer. Tosafot there asks why R. Yochanan couldn't defend himself by saying that he agrees with Rav who is a tanna. Tosafot answers that R. Yochanan frequently argues with Rav, which shows that even if Rav considers himself a tanna R. Yochanan does not consider Rav to be a tanna. If that is the case then R. Yochanan cannot now hide behind Rav, saying that he is a tanna.

Tosafot Ketubot 8a s.v. Rav

ואין להקשות דאמאי לא משני רבי יוחנן אנא דאמרי כרב דתנא הוא דרבי יוחנן לא היה מחזיק רב כתנא דפליג עליו בכל דוכתא

Here, too, then, Shmuel would not be able to defend himself by saying that Rav is a tanna, because Shmuel frequently argues with Rav. Thus, in this case the concept of "Rav is a tanna" wouldn't help because Shmuel would still be refuted.


I subsequently found that R. Chizkiya Medini says that R. Yisrael Dushwitzky wrote to him giving this exact explanation to answer your question:

Sedei Chemed (entry for "Rav Tanna Hu U'Palig")

ועל זה כתב לי הרב המאוה"ג מוהר"ר ישראל דישאוויצקי מעיר מאהליב דינפער יצ"ו וזה לשונו במכתב לחזקיהו דף ט"ז ע"ד העיר כת"ר שליט"א בהא דברכות ל"ז א' דאמרינן תיובתא דרב ושמואל תיובתא האיך מסיק הש"ס בתיובתא ולא משנינן כבעלמא רב תנא הוא ופליג ולפי עניות דעתי פשוט דבודאי על רב לא הוה סלקינן בתיובתא דמצינן לשנויי רב תנא הוא ופליג רק בשביל שמואל סלקינן בתיובתא ולא הוה מצינן לשנויי ושמואל אמר לך אנא דאמרי כרב דתנא הוא דהא שמואל לא היה מחזיק את רב לתנא מדפליג עליה בכל דוכתא וחזון כזה נמצא ממש בתוספות כתובות ח' ע"א גבי ר' יוחנן והרבה הארכתי בכל זה בספרי חמדת ישראל עד כאן לשונו יצ"ו

I thought to answer as follows:

When the Gemara answers that Rav is a tanna, that is when the question is on Rav alone. In this case the question is on a joint statement of Rav and Shmuel. (Whether there is also a concept of "Shmuel is a tanna" as well is subject to debate, but for the sake of this answer let's assume that there isn't.) Thus even if the Gemara were to answer here that Rav is a tanna, it wouldn't help for Shmuel, who would still be refuted.

Now one could retort that if Shmuel is agreeing with Rav and Rav is a tanna then Shmuel should be on safe ground. However, in Ketubot 8a the same statement is cited first in the name of Rav and then in the name of R. Yochanan. When the Gemara challenges the statement of Rav it answers that Rav is a tanna, but when it challenges the statement of R. Yochanan it gives a different answer. Tosafot there asks why R. Yochanan couldn't defend himself by saying that he agrees with Rav who is a tanna. Tosafot answers that R. Yochanan frequently argues with Rav, which shows that even if Rav considers himself a tanna R. Yochanan does not consider Rav to be a tanna. If that is the case then R. Yochanan cannot now hide behind Rav, saying that he is a tanna.

Tosafot Ketubot 8a s.v. Rav

ואין להקשות דאמאי לא משני רבי יוחנן אנא דאמרי כרב דתנא הוא דרבי יוחנן לא היה מחזיק רב כתנא דפליג עליו בכל דוכתא

Here, too, then, Shmuel would not be able to defend himself by saying that Rav is a tanna, because Shmuel frequently argues with Rav. Thus, in this case the concept of "Rav is a tanna" wouldn't help because Shmuel would still be refuted.


I subsequently found that R. Chizkiya Medini says that R. Yisrael Dushwitzky wrote to him giving this exact explanation to answer your question:

Sedei Chemed (entry for "Rav Tanna Hu U'Palig")

ועל זה כתב לי הרב המאוה"ג מוהר"ר ישראל דישאוויצקי מעיר מאהליב דינפער יצ"ו וזה לשונו במכתב לחזקיהו דף ט"ז ע"ד העיר כת"ר שליט"א בהא דברכות ל"ז א' דאמרינן תיובתא דרב ושמואל תיובתא האיך מסיק הש"ס בתיובתא ולא משנינן כבעלמא רב תנא הוא ופליג ולפי עניות דעתי פשוט דבודאי על רב לא הוה סלקינן בתיובתא דמצינן לשנויי רב תנא הוא ופליג רק בשביל שמואל סלקינן בתיובתא ולא הוה מצינן לשנויי ושמואל אמר לך אנא דאמרי כרב דתנא הוא דהא שמואל לא היה מחזיק את רב לתנא מדפליג עליה בכל דוכתא וחזון כזה נמצא ממש בתוספות כתובות ח' ע"א גבי ר' יוחנן והרבה הארכתי בכל זה בספרי חמדת ישראל עד כאן לשונו יצ"ו

1
source | link

I thought to answer as follows:

When the Gemara answers that Rav is a tanna, that is when the question is on Rav alone. In this case the question is on a joint statement of Rav and Shmuel. (Whether there is also a concept of "Shmuel is a tanna" as well is subject to debate, but for the sake of this answer let's assume that there isn't.) Thus even if the Gemara were to answer here that Rav is a tanna, it wouldn't help for Shmuel, who would still be refuted.

Now one could retort that if Shmuel is agreeing with Rav and Rav is a tanna then Shmuel should be on safe ground. However, in Ketubot 8a the same statement is cited first in the name of Rav andd then in the name of R. Yochanan. When the Gemara challenges the statement of Rav it answers that Rav is a tanna, but when it challenges the statement of R. Yochanan it gives a different answer. Tosafot there asks why R. Yochanan couldn't defend himself by saying that he agrees with Rav who is a tanna. Tosafot answers that R. Yochanan frequently argues with Rav, which shows that even if Rav considers himself a tanna R. Yochanan does not consider Rav to be a tanna. If that is the case then R. Yochanan cannot now hide behind Rav, saying that he is a tanna.

Tosafot Ketubot 8a s.v. Rav

ואין להקשות דאמאי לא משני רבי יוחנן אנא דאמרי כרב דתנא הוא דרבי יוחנן לא היה מחזיק רב כתנא דפליג עליו בכל דוכתא

Here, too, then, Shmuel would not be able to defend himself by saying that Rav is a tanna, because Shmuel frequently argues with Rav. Thus, in this case the concept of "Rav is a tanna" wouldn't help because Shmuel would still be refuted.


I subsequently found that R. Chizkiya Medini says that R. Yisrael Dushwitzky wrote to him giving this exact explanation to answer your question:

Sedei Chemed (entry for "Rav Tanna Hu U'Palig")

ועל זה כתב לי הרב המאוה"ג מוהר"ר ישראל דישאוויצקי מעיר מאהליב דינפער יצ"ו וזה לשונו במכתב לחזקיהו דף ט"ז ע"ד העיר כת"ר שליט"א בהא דברכות ל"ז א' דאמרינן תיובתא דרב ושמואל תיובתא האיך מסיק הש"ס בתיובתא ולא משנינן כבעלמא רב תנא הוא ופליג ולפי עניות דעתי פשוט דבודאי על רב לא הוה סלקינן בתיובתא דמצינן לשנויי רב תנא הוא ופליג רק בשביל שמואל סלקינן בתיובתא ולא הוה מצינן לשנויי ושמואל אמר לך אנא דאמרי כרב דתנא הוא דהא שמואל לא היה מחזיק את רב לתנא מדפליג עליה בכל דוכתא וחזון כזה נמצא ממש בתוספות כתובות ח' ע"א גבי ר' יוחנן והרבה הארכתי בכל זה בספרי חמדת ישראל עד כאן לשונו יצ"ו