Timeline for Who were the בני ברית מערביים mentioned in the Trumas HaDeshen, and what was their agenda?
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16 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jan 17, 2021 at 21:03 | vote | accept | user6591 | ||
| Jan 17, 2021 at 9:52 | answer | added | Harel13 | timeline score: 3 | |
| Aug 17, 2017 at 4:03 | comment | added | Yaacov Deane | Remember that this was being written around 1440 or 1450. That's like 570 years ago. | |
| Aug 17, 2017 at 3:58 | comment | added | Yaacov Deane | @DonielF Sorry. The question isn't mine. But the response from the Trumat HaDeshen is dealing with whether it was considered a mitzvah in his day to make aliyah to the land of Israel in general and Jerusalem specifically. His response was that there are enormous benefits but that doing so in his day was very difficult (lack of food, etc) and dangerous (because the Arab population was very hostile to Jews). In addition to this, he said because the Yishmaelim were "Bnai Brit", it was confusing for Ashkenazi Jews. | |
| Aug 17, 2017 at 0:11 | history | tweeted | twitter.com/StackJudaism/status/897974107844878336 | ||
| Aug 16, 2017 at 20:19 | comment | added | user6591 | @Shimon bM Sorry. Forgot to ping you. This was my question that needs some historical clarification. Looks like something you can help with? | |
| Aug 16, 2017 at 20:10 | comment | added | DonielF | @YaacovDeane Context of the tiny little snippet in the OP. What’s the Teshuvah talking about? | |
| Aug 16, 2017 at 19:35 | comment | added | Yaacov Deane | For more detail, see the paragraph beginning, "In Hebrew" dealing with the origin of the term 'Arab'. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_(etymology) | |
| Aug 16, 2017 at 19:27 | comment | added | Yaacov Deane | @DonielF Context of what? That descendents of Ishmael have a covenant they continue from Avraham (Ibrahim)? Thinking a little further, Arab could also be referring to Nabateans like is mentioned by Josephus in The Jewish War. 1:87. | |
| Aug 16, 2017 at 19:22 | comment | added | DonielF | @YaacovDeane And for reasons like that a little context would be nice, as per my previous comment. :) | |
| Aug 16, 2017 at 19:21 | comment | added | Yaacov Deane | @DonielF And if you read the whole response, it seems to clarify that those Arabs who are 'Bnai Brit' are actually called "Yishmaelim" in the closing words. In other words, they are cousins to Jews. In Midrashim, like Sefer HaYashar, they distinguish between descendants from Yishmael and other inhabitants of the Arab middle east. | |
| Aug 16, 2017 at 19:15 | comment | added | Yaacov Deane | @DonielF The language of the Trumat HaDeshen would be different if he was referring to assimilated Jews. The Hebrew is "בני ברית מערביים"which means that they are actual Arabs who are included in a covenant. A Jew who converts to Islam does not become an Arab. They become a Muslim. They would be called a "משומד". It is possible that he could be referring to Jewish converts who were of Arab background who are known informants. But that seems highly unlikely. | |
| Aug 16, 2017 at 19:15 | comment | added | user6591 | @DonielF Could be. I used converted to Islam as a similar suggestion. Seems to be a more period accurate guess. But I don't know. I have no other information to offer. | |
| Aug 16, 2017 at 18:19 | comment | added | DonielF | Maybe he’s referring to (assimilated?) Jews who live in Arab countries? Can you share some more context? | |
| Aug 16, 2017 at 16:59 | comment | added | Yaacov Deane | It is quite possible that he is referring to non-Muslim Arabs descended from Yishmael who are living in the land of Israel. They are also called 'Bnai Yishmael' and do have a tradition of keeping the covenant which they received from Avraham. It is not the Torah but something akin to the seven laws of Noach. That is to distinguish them from the balance of Muslims in the area. | |
| Aug 16, 2017 at 16:27 | history | asked | user6591 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |