Timeline for Does Judaism kill the infidels?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
30 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Apr 2, 2019 at 16:59 | comment | added | Al Berko | Let us continue this discussion in chat. | |
| Apr 2, 2019 at 16:09 | comment | added | DonielF | @AlBerko Again, not everything is left for Rabbi's interpretation, and even that which is, you can't overrule a previous Beis Din unless you're greater in number and wisdom. I'm not sure on the parameters of עת לעשות לה׳ that it applies across the board, but I'm not convinced that it would apply here. | |
| Apr 2, 2019 at 16:07 | comment | added | Al Berko | It's wishful thinking, anybody can claim "עת לעשות לה'" or just prove otherwise from that very Gemmorah. I just say that if such a Rabbi would raise and others will follow there's no mechanism in Judaism to stop him as everything is left for Rabbis interpretations. | |
| Apr 2, 2019 at 16:04 | comment | added | DonielF | 3. By my response to #2, a Rabbi can't say that the Mitzvah to kill Amalek is eternal, as the Gemara already says it only applies during certain times. 4. Bar Kochba was also technically self-defense: the Romans were oppressing the Jews, so Bar Kochba was fighting back. | |
| Apr 2, 2019 at 16:03 | comment | added | DonielF | @Al 1. When did Mordechai say that all women and children should be killed? The decree was that whoever would come to attack them, including women and children, are able to be killed. That's not kill the infidels; that's self-defense! 2. Also false; modern poskim aren't able to override previous ones, nor could they override the ones before them. If the Torah says we're not allowed to kill the infidels, no later Rabbi can overrule that. | |
| Apr 2, 2019 at 15:58 | comment | added | Al Berko | Related on killing infidels: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/101149/… | |
| Apr 2, 2019 at 15:57 | comment | added | Al Berko | Please include that portion of Megilat Ester in your question. | |
| Apr 2, 2019 at 15:55 | comment | added | Al Berko | Think about Bar Kochba and the greatest Rabbis following him. So if a Rabbi comes and develops a theory that, say, the Palestinians are all Amolekites, and the Mitzvah is eternal and now is the time of the holy war, I don't know what in Judaism can stop the people from going out and slaying people just as SOME Arabs do. After all, their tradition spinned off from ours. | |
| Apr 2, 2019 at 15:52 | comment | added | Al Berko | First you should mention Mordechai's decree on killing women and kids. Second, I object the confusion b/w Judaism de-jure and Judaism de-facto. Most people, seemingly you included, see the development of Judaism as "the only possible", presenting later Poskim and interpreters as solely "clarifying" Judaism. It is not true. Every Posek is measured by the measure of his acceptance / popularity with the people, and any Posek can haul Judaism practically anywhere, providing his own interpretations to the Torah. | |
| Jun 25, 2017 at 3:31 | history | edited | DonielF | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
added 630 characters in body
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| Jun 25, 2017 at 3:14 | comment | added | DonielF | @DoubleAA As per recent edits, can you clean out the comments that no longer apply? | |
| Jun 25, 2017 at 3:13 | history | edited | DonielF | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
Focused and expanded on Amalek
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| Apr 13, 2017 at 13:55 | comment | added | Daniel | @Danno at least according to many opinions a Noachide is indeed a believer in Judaism. He just isn't ethnically Jewish. | |
| Apr 13, 2017 at 1:04 | history | edited | DonielF | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
edited body
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| Apr 12, 2017 at 14:38 | comment | added | Casanova | pole their eyes out?? where was this mentioned?? | |
| Mar 22, 2017 at 10:36 | comment | added | Micha Berger | Re the 7 nations... If you lay siege to a city, you need to leave an escape route. I think that's most relevant is that the same G-d who brought us the laws of Amaleiq and the 7 nations also brought civilization to the area via Sancheirev -- a man who destroyed national identities and made those laws inapplicable. It would therefore seem to me the law is less about "kill the infidels" and more "kill the barbarian tribes who would otherwise do worse to you and each other"! | |
| Mar 20, 2017 at 16:35 | answer | added | Clint Eastwood | timeline score: 0 | |
| Mar 20, 2017 at 16:29 | answer | added | Jay | timeline score: 3 | |
| Mar 20, 2017 at 16:15 | comment | added | DonielF | @MonicaCellio I understand well that Amalek is a unique case. I'm just providing all information that may be related to the topic. | |
| Mar 20, 2017 at 16:15 | comment | added | DonielF | @DanF The passuk says "do not let any life live." That sounds pretty straightforward to me. | |
| Mar 20, 2017 at 16:11 | comment | added | Monica Cellio | Amalek is called out as a special case because of what they did; for nobody else are we to not only obliterate them but obliterate their memory. I think your question would be stronger if you didn't invoke Amalek and focused instead on the other cases you brought up. | |
| Mar 20, 2017 at 16:06 | comment | added | DanF | Re Amalek - Refer to the method Samuel used to kill King Agag. Sounds like he "chopped" the man's body. The English translation "hewed him to pieces" is probably a poor translation, though. Re the 7 nations, it does say to destroy their idols. I don't think the Torah says to kill the people, but rather to exile them. If they don't cooperate, there may be permission to kill them. | |
| Mar 20, 2017 at 15:59 | comment | added | DonielF | To all of your questions, I have fleshed out my proof from Tosfos a little more, and I have also added another proof from the halachos of eved kena'ani. | |
| Mar 20, 2017 at 15:59 | history | edited | DonielF | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
fleshed out proof from Tosfos and added eved kena'ani proof
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| Mar 20, 2017 at 15:42 | comment | added | Jay | where do you see a commandment to enslave the rest of the world? From the bit about optional wars? But aren't optional wars .... optional? Isn't it then at least misleading to claim that we are 'commanded to enslave the rest of the world'? | |
| Mar 20, 2017 at 9:48 | comment | added | rosends | re: the use of the word "infidels" -- disbelievers in what? A Noachide is not a believer in Judaism but certainly isn't killed. | |
| Mar 20, 2017 at 4:08 | comment | added | sabbahillel | Given the concept of ger toshav and Noachide, the answer to your title would be no. | |
| Mar 20, 2017 at 3:52 | comment | added | TrustMeI'mARabbi | I just saw a malbim that can provide some insight but the hour is late. I will also try to look up the chinuch as well. Also Yasher Koach on your Dolphinim question! | |
| Mar 20, 2017 at 3:12 | comment | added | Menachem | 1) the 7 nations were allowed to surrender, under certain circumstances. Only Once that time passed we must kill them. 2) what else do you do with conquered nations. That doesn't mean there is a commandment to conquer the whole world. | |
| Mar 20, 2017 at 1:54 | history | asked | DonielF | CC BY-SA 3.0 |