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I'll try to help you a little.
First you know surely that Hazokot is one of the spreaded and entangled subjects in the Talmud and that one of the difficulties is to clarify the differences and similarities between the diverse cases.
The gait of the reasoning in the text that you quoted is also far from being trivial.
I suppose that you know that at this stage, the Gemoro did still not reach its conclusion.
You may make a difference between a natural (or inner following one expression of the Gemoro) hypothetical change and a change due to an external event. We can suppose that death is or an inner event or an external event.
I remember חזקת חי ומת לפניך Taharoth (5, 7)

נָגַע בְּאֶחָד בַּלַּיְלָה, וְאֵין יָדוּעַ אִם חַי אִם מֵת, וּבַשַּׁחַר עָמַד וּמְצָאוֹ מֵת, רַבִּי מֵאִיר מְטַהֵר. וַחֲכָמִים מְטַמְּאִים, שֶׁכָּל הַטֻּמְאוֹת כִּשְׁעַת מְצִיאָתָן: ‏

He touched someone at night and doesn't know if this person was alive or dead. At morning he came up and see him dead. Rabbi Meir said that he remained clean and Chachamim said that he became unclean.

The last tosfot in Niddah 2A&B says that such Hazokoth meykara (from the beginning) are not strong enough and and that that we did learn this stringency from Sotah "*Sotah, the paradigm of Sofek Tuma in the private domain domain**.

In private domain (defined for our issue as a place in which there are less than 3 persons) the HazkathChezkat Tahara does not affectcancel the doubt, and even not create a doubt of heyter.


It seem's that your intuition is that these HazokothChazokot are impaired by a continual process which began from the starting state. It's like an hourglass that is "Behezkat" full. (the words of the Gemoro "את הגס הגס" describes a continuous process). The text below furnish two cases.

  1. Acidification of wine,
  2. the recess of the mikveh (We do not speak about evaporation which is a continuous process, but about loss of water after each immersion which is event dependent depends from events. Indeed, the fact that Mikve is destined to bath, did lead us to see successive immersions as a continuous process (internal, continuous) and not as randomal events)
  3. The Chazaka of fullness of the Mikve is considered a priori better than Vesseth, following the first step of the Gemara. But after this step, from the natural changing"natural changing" point of view they may be equivalent. I'm afraid my answer is riddled with errors. I apologize and I will be happy to correct.

I'll try to help you a little.
First you know surely that Hazokot is one of the spreaded and entangled subjects in the Talmud and that one of the difficulties is to clarify the differences and similarities between the diverse cases.
The gait of the reasoning in the text that you quoted is also far from being trivial.
I suppose that you know that at this stage, the Gemoro did still not reach its conclusion.
You may make a difference between a natural (or inner following one expression of the Gemoro) hypothetical change and a change due to an external event. We can suppose that death is or an inner event or an external event.
I remember חזקת חי ומת לפניך Taharoth (5, 7)

נָגַע בְּאֶחָד בַּלַּיְלָה, וְאֵין יָדוּעַ אִם חַי אִם מֵת, וּבַשַּׁחַר עָמַד וּמְצָאוֹ מֵת, רַבִּי מֵאִיר מְטַהֵר. וַחֲכָמִים מְטַמְּאִים, שֶׁכָּל הַטֻּמְאוֹת כִּשְׁעַת מְצִיאָתָן: ‏

He touched someone at night and doesn't know if this person was alive or dead. At morning he came up and see him dead. Rabbi Meir said that he remained clean and Chachamim said that he became unclean.

The last tosfot in Niddah 2A&B says that such Hazokoth meykara (from the beginning) are not strong enough and and that we did learn this from Sotah, the paradigm of Sofek Tuma in the private domain.

In private domain (defined for our issue as a place in which there are less than 3 persons) the Hazkath Tahara does not affect the doubt.


It seem's that your intuition is that these Hazokoth are impaired by a continual process which began from the starting state. It's like an hourglass that is "Behezkat" full. (the words of the Gemoro "את הגס הגס" describes a continuous process). The text below furnish two cases.

  1. Acidification of wine,
  2. the recess of the mikveh (We do not speak about evaporation which is a continuous process, but about loss of water after each immersion which is event dependent. Indeed, the fact that Mikve is destined to bath, did lead us to see successive immersions as a continuous process (internal, continuous))
  3. The Chazaka of fullness of the Mikve is considered a priori better than Vesseth, following the first step of the Gemara. But after this from the natural changing point of view they may be equivalent. I'm afraid my answer is riddled with errors. I apologize and I will be happy to correct.

I'll try to help you a little.
First you know surely that Hazokot is one of the spreaded and entangled subjects in the Talmud and that one of the difficulties is to clarify the differences and similarities between the diverse cases.
The gait of the reasoning in the text that you quoted is also far from being trivial.
I suppose that you know that at this stage, the Gemoro did still not reach its conclusion.
You may make a difference between a natural (or inner following one expression of the Gemoro) hypothetical change and a change due to an external event. We can suppose that death is or an inner event or an external event.
I remember חזקת חי ומת לפניך Taharoth (5, 7)

נָגַע בְּאֶחָד בַּלַּיְלָה, וְאֵין יָדוּעַ אִם חַי אִם מֵת, וּבַשַּׁחַר עָמַד וּמְצָאוֹ מֵת, רַבִּי מֵאִיר מְטַהֵר. וַחֲכָמִים מְטַמְּאִים, שֶׁכָּל הַטֻּמְאוֹת כִּשְׁעַת מְצִיאָתָן: ‏

He touched someone at night and doesn't know if this person was alive or dead. At morning he came up and see him dead. Rabbi Meir said that he remained clean and Chachamim said that he became unclean.

The last tosfot in Niddah 2A&B says that such Hazokoth meykara (from the beginning) are not strong enough and that we did learn this stringency from "*Sotah, the paradigm of Sofek Tuma in the private domain**.

In private domain (defined for our issue as a place in which there are less than 3 persons) the Chezkat Tahara does not cancel the doubt, and even not create a doubt of heyter.


It seem's that your intuition is that these Chazokot are impaired by a continual process which began from the starting state. It's like an hourglass that is "Behezkat" full. (the words of the Gemoro "את הגס הגס" describes a continuous process). The text below furnish two cases.

  1. Acidification of wine,
  2. the recess of the mikveh (We do not speak about evaporation which is a continuous process, but about loss of water after each immersion which depends from events. Indeed, the fact that Mikve is destined to bath, did lead us to see successive immersions as a continuous process (internal, continuous) and not as randomal events)
  3. The Chazaka of fullness of the Mikve is considered a priori better than Vesseth, following the first step of the Gemara. But after this step, from the "natural changing" point of view they may be equivalent. I'm afraid my answer is riddled with errors. I apologize and I will be happy to correct.
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I'll try to help you a little.
First you know surely that Hazokot is one of the spreaded and entangled subjects in the Talmud and that one of the difficulties is to clarify the differences and similarities between the diverse cases.
The gait of the reasoning in the text that you quoted is also far from being trivial.
I suppose that you know that at this stage, the Gemoro did still not reach its conclusion.
You may make a difference between a natural (or inner following one expression of the Gemoro) hypothetical change and a change due to an external event. We can suppose that death is or an inner event or an external event.
I remember חזקת חי ומת לפניך Taharoth (5, 7)

נָגַע בְּאֶחָד בַּלַּיְלָה, וְאֵין יָדוּעַ אִם חַי אִם מֵת, וּבַשַּׁחַר עָמַד וּמְצָאוֹ מֵת, רַבִּי מֵאִיר מְטַהֵר. וַחֲכָמִים מְטַמְּאִים, שֶׁכָּל הַטֻּמְאוֹת כִּשְׁעַת מְצִיאָתָן: ‏

He touched someone at night and doesn't know if this person was alive or dead. At morning he came up and see him dead. Rabbi Meir said that he remained clean and Chachamim said that he became unclean.

The last tosfot in Niddah 2A&B says that such Hazokoth meykara (from the beginning) are not strong enough and and that we did learn this from Sotah, the paradigm of Sofek Tuma in the private domain.

In private domain (defined for our issue as a place in which there are less than 3 persons) the Hazkath Tahara does not affect the doubt.


It seem's that your intuition is that these Hazokoth are impaired by a continual process which began from the starting state. It's like an hourglass that is "Behezkat" full. (the words of the Gemoro "את הגס הגס" describes a continuous process). The text below furnish two cases.

  1. Acidification of wine,
  2. the recess of the mikveh (We do not speak about evaporation which is a continuous process, but about loss of water after each immersion which is event dependent. Indeed, the fact that Mikve is destined to bath, did lead us to see successive immersions as a continuous process (internal, continuous))
  3. The Chazaka of fullness of the Mikve is considered a priori better than Vesseth, following onethe first step of the Gemara. But after this from the natural changing point of view of the Gemorothey may be equivalent.    I'm afraid my answer is riddled with errors. I apologize and I will be happy to correct.

I'll try to help you a little.
First you know surely that Hazokot is one of the spreaded and entangled subjects in the Talmud and that one of the difficulties is to clarify the differences and similarities between the diverse cases.
The gait of the reasoning in the text that you quoted is also far from being trivial.
I suppose that you know that at this stage, the Gemoro did still not reach its conclusion.
You may make a difference between a natural (or inner following one expression of the Gemoro) hypothetical change and a change due to an external event. We can suppose that death is or an inner event or an external event.
I remember חזקת חי ומת לפניך Taharoth (5, 7)

נָגַע בְּאֶחָד בַּלַּיְלָה, וְאֵין יָדוּעַ אִם חַי אִם מֵת, וּבַשַּׁחַר עָמַד וּמְצָאוֹ מֵת, רַבִּי מֵאִיר מְטַהֵר. וַחֲכָמִים מְטַמְּאִים, שֶׁכָּל הַטֻּמְאוֹת כִּשְׁעַת מְצִיאָתָן: ‏

He touched someone at night and doesn't know if this person was alive or dead. At morning he came up and see him dead. Rabbi Meir said that he remained clean and Chachamim said that he became unclean.

The last tosfot in Niddah 2A&B says that such Hazokoth meykara (from the beginning) are not strong enough and and that we did learn this from Sotah, the paradigm of Sofek Tuma in the private domain.

In private domain (defined for our issue as a place in which there are less than 3 persons) the Hazkath Tahara does not affect the doubt.


It seem's that your intuition is that these Hazokoth are impaired by a continual process which began from the starting state. It's like an hourglass that is "Behezkat" full. (the words of the Gemoro "את הגס הגס" describes a continuous process). The text below furnish two cases.

  1. Acidification of wine,
  2. the recess of the mikveh (We do not speak about evaporation which is a continuous process, but about loss of water after each immersion which is event dependent. Indeed, the fact that Mikve is destined to bath, did lead us to see successive immersions as a continuous process (internal, continuous))
  3. The Chazaka of fullness of the Mikve is considered a priori better than Vesseth, following one point of view of the Gemoro.  I'm afraid my answer is riddled with errors. I apologize and I will be happy to correct.

I'll try to help you a little.
First you know surely that Hazokot is one of the spreaded and entangled subjects in the Talmud and that one of the difficulties is to clarify the differences and similarities between the diverse cases.
The gait of the reasoning in the text that you quoted is also far from being trivial.
I suppose that you know that at this stage, the Gemoro did still not reach its conclusion.
You may make a difference between a natural (or inner following one expression of the Gemoro) hypothetical change and a change due to an external event. We can suppose that death is or an inner event or an external event.
I remember חזקת חי ומת לפניך Taharoth (5, 7)

נָגַע בְּאֶחָד בַּלַּיְלָה, וְאֵין יָדוּעַ אִם חַי אִם מֵת, וּבַשַּׁחַר עָמַד וּמְצָאוֹ מֵת, רַבִּי מֵאִיר מְטַהֵר. וַחֲכָמִים מְטַמְּאִים, שֶׁכָּל הַטֻּמְאוֹת כִּשְׁעַת מְצִיאָתָן: ‏

He touched someone at night and doesn't know if this person was alive or dead. At morning he came up and see him dead. Rabbi Meir said that he remained clean and Chachamim said that he became unclean.

The last tosfot in Niddah 2A&B says that such Hazokoth meykara (from the beginning) are not strong enough and and that we did learn this from Sotah, the paradigm of Sofek Tuma in the private domain.

In private domain (defined for our issue as a place in which there are less than 3 persons) the Hazkath Tahara does not affect the doubt.


It seem's that your intuition is that these Hazokoth are impaired by a continual process which began from the starting state. It's like an hourglass that is "Behezkat" full. (the words of the Gemoro "את הגס הגס" describes a continuous process). The text below furnish two cases.

  1. Acidification of wine,
  2. the recess of the mikveh (We do not speak about evaporation which is a continuous process, but about loss of water after each immersion which is event dependent. Indeed, the fact that Mikve is destined to bath, did lead us to see successive immersions as a continuous process (internal, continuous))
  3. The Chazaka of fullness of the Mikve is considered a priori better than Vesseth, following the first step of the Gemara. But after this from the natural changing point of view they may be equivalent.  I'm afraid my answer is riddled with errors. I apologize and I will be happy to correct.
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I'll try to help you a little.
First you know surely that Hazokot is one of the spreaded and entangled subjects in the Talmud and that one of the difficulties is to clarify the differences and similarities between the diverse cases.
The gait of the reasoning in the text that you quoted is also far from being trivial.
I suppose that you know that at this stage, the Gemoro did still not reach its conclusion.
You may make a difference between a natural (or inner following one expression of the Gemoro) hypothetical change and a change due to an external event. We can suppose that death is or an inner event or an external event.
I remember חזקת חי ומת לפניך Taharoth (5, 7)

נָגַע בְּאֶחָד בַּלַּיְלָה, וְאֵין יָדוּעַ אִם חַי אִם מֵת, וּבַשַּׁחַר עָמַד וּמְצָאוֹ מֵת, רַבִּי מֵאִיר מְטַהֵר. וַחֲכָמִים מְטַמְּאִים, שֶׁכָּל הַטֻּמְאוֹת כִּשְׁעַת מְצִיאָתָן:

He touched someone at night and doesn't know if this person was alive or dead. At morning he came up and see him dead. Rabbi Meir said that he remained clean and Chachamim said that he became unclean.

The last tosfot in Niddah 2A&B says that such Hazokoth meykara (from the beginning) are not strong enough and and that we did learn this from Sotah, the paradigm of Sofek Tuma in the private domain.

In private domain (defined for our issue as a place in which there are less than 3 persons) the Hazkath Tahara does not affect the doubt.


It seem's that your intuition is that these Hazokoth are impaired by a continual process which began from the starting state. It's like an hourglass that is "Behezkat" full. (the words of the Gemoro "את הגס הגס" describes a continuous process). The text below furnish two cases.

  1. Acidification of wine,
  2. the recess of the mikveh (We do not speak about evaporation which is a continuous process, but about loss of water after each immersion which is event dependent. Indeed, the fact that Mikve is destined to bath, did lead us to see successive immersions as a continuous process (internal, continuous))
  3. The Chazaka of fullness of the Mikve is considered a priori better than--> Vesseth following, following one point of view of the Gemoro. I'm afraid my answer is riddled with errors. I apologize and I will be happy to correct.

I'll try to help you a little.
First you know surely that Hazokot is one of the spreaded and entangled subjects in the Talmud and that one of the difficulties is to clarify the differences and similarities between the diverse cases.
The gait of the reasoning in the text that you quoted is also far from being trivial.
I suppose that you know that at this stage, the Gemoro did still not reach its conclusion.
You may make a difference between a natural (or inner following one expression of the Gemoro) hypothetical change and a change due to an external event. We can suppose that death is or an inner event or an external event.
I remember חזקת חי ומת לפניך Taharoth (5, 7)

נָגַע בְּאֶחָד בַּלַּיְלָה, וְאֵין יָדוּעַ אִם חַי אִם מֵת, וּבַשַּׁחַר עָמַד וּמְצָאוֹ מֵת, רַבִּי מֵאִיר מְטַהֵר. וַחֲכָמִים מְטַמְּאִים, שֶׁכָּל הַטֻּמְאוֹת כִּשְׁעַת מְצִיאָתָן:

He touched someone at night and doesn't know if this person was alive or dead. At morning he came up and see him dead. Rabbi Meir said that he remained clean and Chachamim said that he became unclean.

The last tosfot in Niddah 2A&B says that such Hazokoth meykara (from the beginning) are not strong enough and and that we did learn this from Sotah, the paradigm of Sofek Tuma in the private domain.

In private domain (defined for our issue as a place in which there are less than 3 persons) the Hazkath Tahara does not affect the doubt.


It seem's that your intuition is that these Hazokoth are impaired by a continual process which began from the starting state. It's like an hourglass that is "Behezkat" full. (the words of the Gemoro "את הגס הגס" describes a continuous process). The text below furnish two cases.

  1. Acidification of wine,
  2. the recess of the mikveh (We do not speak about evaporation which is a continuous process, but about loss of water after each immersion which is event dependent. Indeed, the fact that Mikve is destined to bath, did lead us to see successive immersions as a continuous process (internal, continuous))
  3. The Chazaka of fullness of the Mikve is considered a priori better than--> Vesseth following one point of view of the Gemoro. I'm afraid my answer is riddled with errors. I apologize and I will be happy to correct.

I'll try to help you a little.
First you know surely that Hazokot is one of the spreaded and entangled subjects in the Talmud and that one of the difficulties is to clarify the differences and similarities between the diverse cases.
The gait of the reasoning in the text that you quoted is also far from being trivial.
I suppose that you know that at this stage, the Gemoro did still not reach its conclusion.
You may make a difference between a natural (or inner following one expression of the Gemoro) hypothetical change and a change due to an external event. We can suppose that death is or an inner event or an external event.
I remember חזקת חי ומת לפניך Taharoth (5, 7)

נָגַע בְּאֶחָד בַּלַּיְלָה, וְאֵין יָדוּעַ אִם חַי אִם מֵת, וּבַשַּׁחַר עָמַד וּמְצָאוֹ מֵת, רַבִּי מֵאִיר מְטַהֵר. וַחֲכָמִים מְטַמְּאִים, שֶׁכָּל הַטֻּמְאוֹת כִּשְׁעַת מְצִיאָתָן:

He touched someone at night and doesn't know if this person was alive or dead. At morning he came up and see him dead. Rabbi Meir said that he remained clean and Chachamim said that he became unclean.

The last tosfot in Niddah 2A&B says that such Hazokoth meykara (from the beginning) are not strong enough and and that we did learn this from Sotah, the paradigm of Sofek Tuma in the private domain.

In private domain (defined for our issue as a place in which there are less than 3 persons) the Hazkath Tahara does not affect the doubt.


It seem's that your intuition is that these Hazokoth are impaired by a continual process which began from the starting state. It's like an hourglass that is "Behezkat" full. (the words of the Gemoro "את הגס הגס" describes a continuous process). The text below furnish two cases.

  1. Acidification of wine,
  2. the recess of the mikveh (We do not speak about evaporation which is a continuous process, but about loss of water after each immersion which is event dependent. Indeed, the fact that Mikve is destined to bath, did lead us to see successive immersions as a continuous process (internal, continuous))
  3. The Chazaka of fullness of the Mikve is considered a priori better than Vesseth, following one point of view of the Gemoro. I'm afraid my answer is riddled with errors. I apologize and I will be happy to correct.
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