Timeline for How do we know that the civil Saturday is the correct Shabbat?
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31 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Dec 4 at 2:34 | comment | added | Shimon | Many are unaware that both 'יום ז as well as יו"ט are both called שבת in our holy Torah. That's why "ממחרת שבת" is the second day of Pesach, not Sunday. That is why we recite מזמור שיר ליום השבת on Yom Tov as well as שבת. | |
| Jan 24, 2016 at 23:47 | comment | added | Aleksandr Sigalov | Here is updated link | |
| Jan 24, 2016 at 20:59 | comment | added | Aleksandr Sigalov | I used this for moon phases. | |
| Jan 24, 2016 at 20:44 | comment | added | Aleksandr Sigalov | @DoubleAA Here is the complete calendar. I figured it out. Check it out. link | |
| Jan 24, 2016 at 2:42 | comment | added | Aleksandr Sigalov | @DoubleAA The only thing I can't figure out is two shabbats in a row thing. The moon month is 29.5 days, so there are month with 29 days and 30 days. On month with 29 days we obviously would have 2 shabbats in a row - 29th and 1st. I have no idea how to solve this contradiction. This also invalidates traditional calendar just like I said, but it does not provide solution with lunar one either. And yes, the idea of a lunar shabbat that 1st of the month and all other miqra qodesh were shabbats as well so manna fell on them as well. | |
| Jan 23, 2016 at 23:15 | comment | added | Double AA♦ | Shemot 16:1 implies that once Shabbat fell on the 14th not the 15th; the 15th was day 1 of the week then, apparently. I'll give you an extra tip: according to the traditional calendar 15% of months happen that way too. | |
| Jan 23, 2016 at 23:14 | comment | added | Double AA♦ | Even according to Lunar theory the seventh day of Pesach (21st of Nissan) fell on Erev Shabbat. So how did they have food for that day and the next? Must be that extra food fell before Yom Tov just like before Shabbat, or that Manna fell on Yom Tov. No problem. | |
| Jan 23, 2016 at 2:11 | comment | added | Aleksandr Sigalov | @DoubleAA Also, Shemot 16:1 and Shemot 16:22-23 imply that Shabbat felt on 15th and 22nd, exactly as lunar shabbat theory states. How come it is on different days now? | |
| Jan 23, 2016 at 1:48 | comment | added | Aleksandr Sigalov | @DoubleAA Here is more specific argument against traditional calendar. Passover 2008 was right after Shabbat. How was that possible if manna did not fall on Shabbat, so they would not have any food to eat for Passover. Thoughts? | |
| Jan 21, 2016 at 4:41 | comment | added | Aleksandr Sigalov | I think it variates between 4 shabbats and 6 days to 5 shabbats and 1 day, depending on the numbers of days in a month. This way, calendar is continuous and does not need any adjustments. | |
| Jan 21, 2016 at 4:10 | comment | added | Aleksandr Sigalov | I also appreciate your input and want to have a normal discussion so no need to call what I say ridiculous. If you disagree just say so. I am not trolling here, I want to see if this whole lunar sabbath thing can work. It makes a lot of sense to me. | |
| Jan 21, 2016 at 4:10 | comment | added | Aleksandr Sigalov | I pointed out above that there is 4 complete weeks and 1 incomplete one in a month. Yes, after 28th, there is a day and then a shabbat again (new moon). I cited Vaikra verse as proof of the existence of incomplete weeks. This is logic. And yes, 6th days you work and 1 rest, except for the end of the month. What is the problem? You still have not answered my question. With traditional calendar we also have shabbath in the middle of the week (i.e sukkot, passover) so it does not have to be even as traditional calendar clearly shows. | |
| Jan 21, 2016 at 4:04 | comment | added | Double AA♦ | So there are 5 Sabbaths each month? 1-8-15-22-29? How does that possibly fit with "six days shall you work and on the seventh rest" ששת ימים תעבד וביום השביעי תשבת? Your claim is getting more ridiculous as this goes on. It's almost like you've never read the verses. And if you think it's corrupted, then you can make anything fit: just say anything that disagrees is corrupted. (Of course, no one should take claims like that seriously...) | |
| Jan 21, 2016 at 3:54 | comment | added | Aleksandr Sigalov | Obviously, since 1st of the month is determined by the new moon it should be a shabbat. 8-7=1. I do not use cited article as a guide here. I cited it for sources of commentators. Please do not assume things. I do not know why it specifies it there. Perhaps it is a textual inconsistency. The text as we have it clearly corrupted so I am sure we are missing some information. SP is a good example. I do not understand how this is relevant to the question at hand. It does not change anything anyway even if it said it there. I still do not understand what is the problem? | |
| Jan 21, 2016 at 3:47 | comment | added | Double AA♦ | The first of the month is not Lunar Shabbat accd to your article. The 8th, 15th, 22nd, and 29th are. My problem is stated clearly above. Why does the text note the co-incidence of Rosh Hashana and Rosh Chodesh by specifying both offerings should be brought, but not do the same for 15 Nissan and 15 Tishrei which co-incide with Lunar Shabbat and accd to you " you just bring both offerings"? Clearly the text does NOT think that 15th of the month is always Shabbat. | |
| Jan 21, 2016 at 3:44 | comment | added | Aleksandr Sigalov | I am not sure I understand your question. Are you talking about Bemidbar 29:6? Please cite verses. Its the first of the month which is Shabbat, so what is the problem? | |
| Jan 21, 2016 at 3:31 | comment | added | Double AA♦ | Ha! Gotcha! If what you say is true, why on Rosh Chodesh Tishrei does it say to also bring the Rosh Chodesh offering מלבד עלת החדש ומנחתה? It should say the same thing for 15 Nissan מלבד עלת השבת ומנחתה! | |
| Jan 21, 2016 at 3:11 | comment | added | Aleksandr Sigalov | @DoubleAA "that which is needed to eat" is an exception allowed in all miqra qodesh. You probably do not agree with this but this is how it works (see my post about passover). It specified not to work because it is a Holy Meeting, a special shabbat (this is probably what shabbat shabbaton means). Korbanot are not mentioned because every miqra qodesh is a shabbat but every shabbat is not miqra qodesh. Why relist offerings twice? On Miqra qodesh you just bring both offerings and on regular shabbat just one. | |
| Jan 21, 2016 at 2:57 | comment | added | Double AA♦ | When the Torah allowed on 15 Nissan "that which is needed to eat" אך אשר יאכל לכל נפש does that overrule the fact that it's Shabbat too? Why did it even specify not to do work on 15 Tishrei, if that was already Shabbat? What about the Korbanot Musaf for Shabbat in Num 28? Why aren't they mentioned in the sections there about what to bring on 15 Nissan and 15 Tishrei? Doesn't it seem from all that that the Torah doesn't think that every 15 Nissan and 15 Tishrei is Shabbat, but rather that Shabbat is independent of those dates (unlike what you claim, that they were always Shabbat)? | |
| Jan 21, 2016 at 2:46 | comment | added | Aleksandr Sigalov | No, Moon was created in the 4th day phase. | |
| Jan 21, 2016 at 2:45 | comment | added | Double AA♦ | So the first Sabbath was not on a Sabbath (3 days after the moon was created)? | |
| Jan 21, 2016 at 2:36 | history | edited | Mike | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 21, 2016 at 2:35 | comment | added | Aleksandr Sigalov | @DoubleAA Months and Holy Meetings at least. | |
| Jan 21, 2016 at 2:34 | comment | added | Double AA♦ | 1:16 says the moon is "to rule the night". What calendrical function is that? | |
| Jan 21, 2016 at 2:31 | history | edited | Aleksandr Sigalov | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 21, 2016 at 2:19 | comment | added | Aleksandr Sigalov | @DoubleAA It does. its Bereshit 1:16 | |
| Jan 21, 2016 at 2:14 | history | edited | Aleksandr Sigalov | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 21, 2016 at 1:36 | review | Late answers | |||
| Jan 21, 2016 at 8:34 | |||||
| Jan 21, 2016 at 1:30 | comment | added | Double AA♦ | Note Gen 1:14 does not specify which of the solar bodies has which function. | |
| Jan 21, 2016 at 1:29 | history | edited | Double AA♦ | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 21, 2016 at 1:21 | history | answered | Aleksandr Sigalov | CC BY-SA 3.0 |