Timeline for What is the meaning of "guf naki" regarding prohibitting women to wear tefillin?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
28 events
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| Sep 27, 2021 at 7:47 | comment | added | Nissim Nanach | @DanF I once asked why can you cover and pee but a fart that has no lasting solid or liquid you must remove (or lift) the tefilin. I was told it's because at the moment of flatulence, your colon is exposed so it's like one surface with your leg so it's like having feces on your leg. | |
| Apr 13, 2017 at 12:42 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
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| Aug 9, 2015 at 2:17 | history | edited | hazoriz | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Aug 7, 2015 at 17:35 | comment | added | DanF | @hazoriz I'm not sure if the diet has gotten better. If I'm an indication, it's not my diet as much as my meds that increase my stomach acid ;-) Also, I think these days sleeping is a bigger problem than flatulence! People are getting less sleep, insomnia is increasing, and many meds cause drowsiness! That reminds me of something else zzzzzz.... | |
| Aug 7, 2015 at 17:32 | history | edited | hazoriz | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Aug 7, 2015 at 17:15 | history | edited | hazoriz | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Aug 7, 2015 at 17:10 | history | edited | hazoriz | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Aug 7, 2015 at 17:08 | comment | added | hazoriz | @DanF maybe now since the diet of most Jews in the east changed from before ~50 years ago, the law might be different, but then men will also need to wear them all day, (if they can control their thoughts about woman) | |
| Aug 7, 2015 at 16:53 | history | edited | hazoriz | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Aug 7, 2015 at 16:47 | comment | added | hazoriz | @DoubleAA i found it | |
| Aug 7, 2015 at 16:47 | history | edited | hazoriz | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Aug 7, 2015 at 16:42 | comment | added | hazoriz | @DanF it is not to support it is for future reference | |
| Aug 7, 2015 at 16:42 | comment | added | Double AA♦ | hazoriz, you have cited lots of sources that flatulence is a problem of guf naki, but none that specify that that's what Tosfos in the OP meant. | |
| Aug 7, 2015 at 16:40 | comment | added | hazoriz | @DanF we say, "Hey, b/c you're a woman, and are not obligated to be careful, so just like not every man can be careful ואין כל אדם יכול ליזהר בזה, do not put a stumbling block to yourself (we know as the mogain avrohom (above) said if you will be obligated to you would be successful to be careful)" | |
| Aug 7, 2015 at 16:39 | comment | added | DanF | "maybe it has to do with particles of feces getting suck to the body ". I'm uncertain if there is a M.Y. "protocol" regarding including an unanswered question to support your answer. Regardless, as it stands, this is currently, speculation. Cc @DoubleAA | |
| Aug 7, 2015 at 16:35 | history | edited | hazoriz | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Aug 7, 2015 at 16:33 | comment | added | DanF | @hazoriz I don't disagree with that! But, the correlation is not apparent from what you cited. Many women currently DO wear tefillin. Does that fact eliminate the "guf naki" concern for them, even if they are being more careful and never pass gas? Or, do we say, "Hey, b/c you're a woman, there's no way you would be careful, no mater what"? | |
| Aug 7, 2015 at 16:31 | history | edited | hazoriz | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Aug 7, 2015 at 16:27 | comment | added | hazoriz | @DanF the way i see it is that if a woman needed to wear teffilin she would be careful successfully | |
| Aug 7, 2015 at 16:26 | comment | added | DanF | @hazoriz OK. You might want to clarify that aspect in your answer. However, even with that clarification, I don't see that correlation within the sources. Try to clarify that part - i.e. not being obligated to put on tefillin, makes them less careful about flatulence. I would find this reasoning difficult in light of Yam Shel Shlomo's explanation about Michal. She was also not obligated, but apparently guf naki was not a problem for her. | |
| Aug 7, 2015 at 16:20 | comment | added | hazoriz | @DanF re 2) it does not mean that they flatulent more than men or that men are MORE careful than women. it is just that they do not need to (they are not obligated to (that is from Brachot)) pay attention to it so they usualy don't | |
| Aug 7, 2015 at 16:17 | comment | added | DanF | I'm not seeing your relating the two aspects of your two quotes. The one in Brachot exempts women b/c of time-related mitzvoth, which is outside the scope of what I am asking, anyway. I think you need to support two ideas - 1) Guf naki means ONLY flatulence and 2) The fact that women are not careful about "guf naki" means that they flatulate more than men or that men are MORE careful than women. I don't see that concept implied from the above. (AFAIK, men & women have the same level of concern re flatulence.) | |
| Aug 7, 2015 at 16:15 | comment | added | Double AA♦ | Please source your first sentence (the only one that directly answers the question). | |
| S Aug 7, 2015 at 16:15 | history | suggested | WhyEnBe | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Aug 7, 2015 at 16:14 | comment | added | Double AA♦ | Essentially, the point of the MA is that since women aren't obligated to put on the Tefillin, why risk it? Not: women are sloppy dirty creatures who can't control any of their bodily functions. | |
| Aug 7, 2015 at 16:14 | review | Suggested edits | |||
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| Aug 7, 2015 at 16:11 | history | edited | hazoriz | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Aug 7, 2015 at 16:02 | history | answered | hazoriz | CC BY-SA 3.0 |