Timeline for Intrinsic Value of Mitzvot
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| Jul 10, 2015 at 18:35 | comment | added | Emilios1995 | I told you that the Ikarim's 'Kavana' means to do it because Hashem ordered. So you can't "remember Mitzrayim in some other way with kavana". I added another excerpt from chapter 28 to make this clearer to you | |
| Jul 10, 2015 at 18:33 | history | edited | Emilios1995 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jul 10, 2015 at 17:56 | comment | added | mevaqesh | " you can remember Mitzrayim in some other way, but would be doing it without kavana." I could remember Mitzrayim in some other way with kavana, that is with cognizance. | |
| Jul 10, 2015 at 17:55 | comment | added | mevaqesh | "What does Kavana means? it means doing it because Hashem told you to" where do you get this definition from? | |
| Jul 10, 2015 at 17:54 | comment | added | mevaqesh | I wasnt suggesting my own view on the topic. I was questioning the relevance of your answer to my question. If some other part of the chapter was vital to the answer, then consider quoting it. | |
| Jul 10, 2015 at 16:11 | comment | added | Emilios1995 | What does Kavana means? it means doing it because Hashem told you to. you can remember Mitzrayim in some other way, but would be doing it without kavana. Kavana is the "intrinsic value". you should read both the gemara and the whole chapter of Ikarim before suggesting you own views on them. | |
| Jul 9, 2015 at 17:17 | comment | added | mevaqesh | e.g. remembering Mitzrayim in some other way that that doesnt fulfill the mitzvah. | |
| Jul 9, 2015 at 17:14 | comment | added | mevaqesh | stripped of kavana has no value. Even if one fails to discharge one's obligation, that is not proof that the act had no value, only that it lacked the requisite value (or characteristics) to fulfill the mitzvah. Lastly, even if the act divorced of intent is useless, that still doesnt answer the question. Lets say I have a mitzva kiyumis of eating matza after already eating a kezayis. I understand that eating it without kavana is useless, but I still have the original question of whether or not there is a reason to pursue this mitzva kiyums if I could achieve identical results | |
| Jul 9, 2015 at 17:12 | comment | added | mevaqesh | Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but this doesn't seem to answer the question. All we see is that a mitzvah with intent is superior. Thus, besides for the mitzva itself, there are advantages in doing it with kavana. Thus, it could be argued that there is extrinsic value to the mitzvos. However, the question was whether or not there is intrinsic value to the mitzvah. The Gemara is certainly no proof as (IIRC) that might be a technical exception as acila gassa is not an achila. Even the Ikkarim is no proof. All we see is that there is more value when done with kavana; not that the mitzvah alone | |
| Jul 9, 2015 at 4:56 | history | edited | Emilios1995 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jul 9, 2015 at 2:28 | history | edited | Emilios1995 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jul 9, 2015 at 2:18 | history | edited | Emilios1995 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jul 9, 2015 at 2:09 | history | edited | Emilios1995 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jul 9, 2015 at 1:55 | history | answered | Emilios1995 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |