Timeline for Help me find a source for glossing "sefer" (in Shabbat 14a) as "Torah, Nevi'im, and Ketuvim"
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20 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Feb 2, 2016 at 15:09 | history | edited | msh210♦ |
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| Mar 22, 2015 at 18:50 | history | tweeted | twitter.com/#!/StackJudaism/status/579716922465513473 | ||
| Feb 25, 2015 at 19:26 | vote | accept | mweiss | ||
| Feb 25, 2015 at 10:54 | answer | added | Danny Schoemann | timeline score: 4 | |
| Feb 20, 2015 at 16:43 | comment | added | Isaac Kotlicky | Sefer she'aynah mugah - rashi says it's Tanach. Rambam says it's specifically a sefer torah. Rosh said this is in respect to sources from which we pasken, which in those days didn't include written gemara and mishnayos. In our times, the Rosh holds that anything we pasken from can't be written wrong as it might lead to improper halachic actions. | |
| Feb 20, 2015 at 16:35 | comment | added | Isaac Kotlicky | I'm currently listening to it again, trying to pick it out... | |
| Feb 20, 2015 at 16:20 | comment | added | Fred | @IsaacKotlicky Then perhaps you could post that Rashi as an answer here? | |
| Feb 20, 2015 at 16:15 | comment | added | Isaac Kotlicky | @Fred Beautiful find! Looks like I was wrong about that. Sheesh. I missed that mishnah in yadayim? I need to pay attention more during my chazarah. This definitely seems to define the shiur of a sefer as being in ashuris, which would render other langages a moot point (unless they're written in ashuris like yiddish?) Also, we just covered in (tomorrow's) daf shiur that Rashi identifies "s'farim" as being Tanach. | |
| Feb 20, 2015 at 16:07 | comment | added | Fred | @IsaacKotlicky Maybe, but see the mishna (Yadayim 4:5, codified by the Rambam in Hil. Avos HaTum'a 9:7), which seems to say that it has to be written in k'sav Ashuris in order to defile hands: "תרגום שכתבו עברית ועברית שכתבו תרגום וכתב עברי, אינו מטמא את הידיים. לעולם אינו מטמא עד שיכתבנו אשורית על העור ובדיו". Though perhaps you could argue that this limitation applies only to defiling hands for תרומה, whereas maybe even יוונית could defile hands for קודש. | |
| Feb 20, 2015 at 12:33 | comment | added | Isaac Kotlicky | @Fred Actually, they might. The defilement was an entirely Rabbinic enactment to ensure that people treated the s'farim with care and respect. If the s'farim were usable (and it seems like even in other languages they were), then no distinction would be made between them. Based on OP's response, perhaps it's even more imperative to treat foreign language s'farim with respect, as people are more prone to treating them in a degenerate manner. There are other halachos like this, but they currently elude me (perhaps harchakos for niddah?)... | |
| Feb 20, 2015 at 7:00 | history | edited | msh210♦ |
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| Feb 20, 2015 at 3:17 | comment | added | Fred | @mweiss That's a good question. Maybe s'farim written in יוונית do in fact defile hands? | |
| Feb 20, 2015 at 3:08 | comment | added | mweiss | @Fred, let me see if I have the logic right: On 8b, we learn that s'farim can be written in any language, and Rashi explains that in that context "s'farim" means Torah, Nevi'im, Ketuvim. On 7a Rashi tells us that s'farim defile the hands. So may we infer that the word means the same thing in that context? If so, that would seem to imply that even in another language they defile the hands. That can't be right, can it? | |
| Feb 20, 2015 at 2:48 | comment | added | Fred | @mweiss Well, as mevaqesh pointed out, Rashi defines ספרים that way explicitly on 8b, but it is in a different context. | |
| Feb 20, 2015 at 2:44 | comment | added | mweiss | @Fred I don't disagree that is the implied meaning, I am just looking for a place where he states it explicitly. | |
| Feb 20, 2015 at 2:42 | comment | added | Fred | @mweiss That's the implied meaning when Rashi uses the expression "כשאר ספרים". S'farim in that context means books of Tanach. | |
| Feb 20, 2015 at 2:39 | comment | added | mweiss | I'm looking in particular for a clear statement that "kitvei kodesh" means "Torah, Nevi'im, and Ketuvim." (As opposed to "only Torah" or "any written text with God's name on it"). | |
| Feb 20, 2015 at 2:25 | comment | added | Fred | Specifically, I think you are looking for Rashi on M'gilla 7a: אינה מטמאה את הידים. כשאר ספרים דאמר ביציאות השבת (דף יד.) שגזרו עליהן לטמא את הידים. | |
| Feb 20, 2015 at 2:18 | comment | added | mevaqesh | Well if you just want a source that Rashi explains that sfarim refers to all kisvei kodesh see Rashi to Megillah 8b (IIRC). Yup...Rashi to the Mishnah. | |
| Feb 20, 2015 at 2:15 | history | asked | mweiss | CC BY-SA 3.0 |