Timeline for Moshav leitzim and modern popular / Greek culture – why leitzanus is a core issue?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
31 events
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| May 20 at 10:05 | history | bumped | CommunityBot | This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed. | |
| Jan 21 at 10:01 | history | bumped | CommunityBot | This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed. | |
| Dec 26, 2023 at 13:02 | comment | added | The GRAPKE | @Binyomin OK... | |
| Dec 26, 2023 at 6:36 | comment | added | Binyomin | @TheGRAPKE More from AI: g.co/bard/share/4c72e25d0d96 i.imgur.com/MjbW1Kv.png And here much scientific stuff about how people read and interpret it in different ways: jstor.org/stable/4349034 | |
| Dec 26, 2023 at 6:34 | comment | added | Binyomin | @TheGRAPKE Here is an original quotation: "Tragedy, then, is an imitation of an action that is serious, complete, and of a certain magnitude; in language embellished with each kind of artistic ornament, the several kinds being found in separate parts of the play; in the form of action, not of narrative; through pity and fear effecting the proper purgation of these emotions." From here: gutenberg.org/files/1974/1974-h/1974-h.htm#link2H_4_0008 It is definitely possible to read it as I suggested above (although not exclusively). | |
| Dec 26, 2023 at 5:29 | comment | added | The GRAPKE | @Binyomin Do they have a source for that? It's not what the common use of the term means. | |
| Dec 25, 2023 at 16:55 | comment | added | Binyomin | @TheGRAPKE No, that is correct. Source: "Aristotle believed that [...] this experience audiences can learn to better regulate their emotions in real life." litcharts.com/literary-devices-and-terms/catharsis Regulating emotions is mussar! | |
| Dec 25, 2023 at 10:33 | comment | added | The GRAPKE | @Binyomin No, that's incorrect. | |
| Dec 24, 2023 at 14:14 | comment | added | Binyomin | @TheGRAPKE Might be I misunderstood the concept, but I perceived that this purging means a perfection of character. | |
| Dec 24, 2023 at 6:45 | comment | added | The GRAPKE | @Binyomin I can't see what this has to do with mussar? “Originally, the term catharsis comes from Greek tragedy, where it was used by the philosopher Aristotle in his work "Poetics". In this context, catharsis refers to the emotional release that an audience experiences as a result of watching a tragic drama. Aristotle argued that by experiencing fear and pity through the events of the tragedy, the audience would undergo a catharsis, leading to a purging of these emotions and ultimately to a state of renewal and restoration.” | |
| Dec 23, 2023 at 21:28 | comment | added | Binyomin | @TheGRAPKE Sorry, I might have missed such a definition... I referred above to the term "catharsis" which is an example for the belief of a typical non-Jewish / greek self definition that is close to what we call "mussar" (lehavdil). | |
| Dec 22, 2023 at 8:33 | answer | added | Nissim Nanach | timeline score: -1 | |
| Dec 22, 2023 at 6:12 | comment | added | The GRAPKE | @Binyomin But by definition popular culture involves the hisroknus of penimiyus which is by definition letzanus? | |
| Dec 22, 2023 at 4:43 | comment | added | Binyomin | @RabbiKaii Thank you, I edited the title to fit it better. But if you still feel it is not completely clear, edit it please. | |
| Dec 22, 2023 at 4:43 | history | edited | Binyomin | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Title fit better to the real question
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| Dec 22, 2023 at 1:32 | comment | added | Rabbi Kaii | @Binyomin I think your question is the title, right? And you want an answer that does well to exhaust the topic, so you've asked some example questions that should be dealt with in the answer. Is that correct? If so, would you consider structuring it like that, or allowing me to edit it. | |
| Dec 21, 2023 at 22:21 | comment | added | Binyomin | @TheGRAPKE I was specifically referring and asking about popular culture aspects which don't have leitzanus (according to your or anyone else's definition). | |
| Dec 21, 2023 at 22:20 | comment | added | Binyomin | @MichoelR I edited with sources, thank you for your suggestion. | |
| Dec 21, 2023 at 22:20 | comment | added | Binyomin | @RabbiKaii I edited with sources, thank you for your suggestion. | |
| Dec 21, 2023 at 22:19 | history | edited | Binyomin | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Dec 19, 2023 at 5:51 | history | edited | Harel13 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
edited body; edited title
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| Dec 19, 2023 at 5:29 | comment | added | Binyomin | OK, I modified this sentence slightly and I will look for more sources about this soon B"H. In the meantime, I've found two relevant links: thelehrhaus.com/commentary/torah-u-madda-or-torah-u-movies koshermovies.com/what-is-a-kosher-movie | |
| Dec 19, 2023 at 5:28 | history | edited | Binyomin | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Dec 19, 2023 at 5:09 | comment | added | The GRAPKE | The definition of letzanus is to interpret something not according to its inner content, which is the issue with Greek culture. | |
| Dec 19, 2023 at 0:16 | comment | added | MichoelR | I think Rabbi Kaii is making a good point: "Avodah Zarah 18b is the Chazal source to forbid virtually everything which comes from greek culture": This needs a source, explaining how/if one gets from the gemara to that result. | |
| Dec 18, 2023 at 22:06 | history | edited | Binyomin | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Dec 18, 2023 at 21:57 | comment | added | Rabbi Kaii | I count 4 issues: 1) Why does the gemara say טרטיאות ולקרקסיאות are places of letzanut? 2) Does this halacha forbid all theaters and movies? 3) If so how can we account for the fact that the core value of theater etc is to uplift, not mock? 4) If theater and movies are banned because of letzanut, isn't letzanut also forbidden in other situations (like shul), and if not, why not? I'll recommend simplifying this, as well as backing up any assumptions, and it will make it easier for people to get you the right answer. Hatzlacha | |
| Dec 18, 2023 at 21:42 | comment | added | Binyomin | My first sentence is attempting to answer your first question, from that on your second question. | |
| Dec 18, 2023 at 21:35 | comment | added | Binyomin | For example here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharsis . I believe that this kind of comparison is missing my point. Indeed there are big disputes between the two world views, while at the same time there are common values. One does not exclude or disprove the other, so I feel that it would be in vain for me to list them. | |
| Dec 18, 2023 at 21:24 | comment | added | Rabbi Kaii | Where did you get your impression of טרטיאות ולקרקסיאות, that they are places that in essence set out to elevate within the audience virtue etc? Assuming that is correct, is it possible that the Greek virtues would be considered letzanut by Torah standards? The general definition of letzanut is "making light of holy matters", which is practically the definition of, e.g. hellenism. Scepticism is another Greek "virtue" | |
| Dec 18, 2023 at 21:07 | history | asked | Binyomin | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
