Timeline for Does contemporary orthodox Judaism teach that "Satan" exists?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
24 events
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| Aug 7, 2023 at 4:05 | comment | added | Yaacov Deane | @Deuteronomy I still have not received my new Siddur unfortunately, but am seeing from multiple sources that even Rav Kapach includes the recital of למנצח בנגינות while viewing the chapter in the form of the menorah. That satisfies the name requirement discussed. | |
| Jul 25, 2023 at 21:51 | comment | added | Deuteronomy | @YaacovDeane sounds good, enjoy :) I'm sure you'll let me know if I've overlooked something. I've got the Siah Yerushalayim set for the full year if you ever need to look something up beyond the weekday/shabboth volume. As for his MT, I got it years ago and at the time found it cheaper to ship it in to NY from E"Y than to try to buy it local. All the best brother. | |
| Jul 24, 2023 at 3:56 | comment | added | Yaacov Deane | @Deuteronomy B”H, I literally just found a copy of the siddur here in the states and ordered it. Looking forward! | |
| Jul 24, 2023 at 3:47 | comment | added | Yaacov Deane | @Deuteronomy His complete commentary on Mishneh Torah is something else on my list for my personal library. Years ago when it was more readily available, my funds were limited. I have a fairly extensive collection of Teimani texts. But those two are missing. Everything in its time. | |
| Jul 24, 2023 at 3:41 | comment | added | Yaacov Deane | @Deuteronomy Until I acquire a copy of Rav Kapach’s nusach, I’ll have to take your word for it. I would love to look it over in detail but haven’t been able to find a copy here in the USA. When the opportunity presents itself, I will, bli neder, take advantage of it. | |
| Jul 23, 2023 at 23:41 | comment | added | Deuteronomy | @YaacovDeane I have a copy of תכלאל-תפילת אבות and have seen it more widely used among Baladim in the US. It is however the "popular" text, which is more accommodationist both historically and presently. Siah Yerushalayim is a more accurate reflection of the earlier incarnations of the nusah. | |
| Jul 23, 2023 at 21:40 | comment | added | Yaacov Deane | @QwertyCTRL. That would be consistent with why the source nusach I have doesn’t show it. It was probably not included originally by the Jews of Teiman. But thanks for the reference from the Ben Ish Chai. | |
| Jul 23, 2023 at 17:32 | comment | added | Qwertrl | According to the nusach Edot Hamizrach, the reference to Satan is part of an optional addition to the second yehi ratzon. The obligatory, main yehi ratzon does not include it. This format is evident from the Ben Ish Hai; to summarize, he says that the original Nusach had only eleven phrases of evil, and that if one wishes to say them, he should do so in a separate section. | |
| Jul 21, 2023 at 21:41 | comment | added | Yaacov Deane | @DoubleAA Both in the usage in the text of the Yehi Ratzon and in the Roshei Teivot from the second line of the 42 letter name of G-d, both are referencing the name of that particular angel (תפשת מועט תפשת). The name of that angel is its (כלי) vessel. דנין כלי מכלי ואין דנין כלי מתכשיט. See Sukkah 5a. Shabbat shalom… | |
| Jul 21, 2023 at 20:05 | comment | added | Yaacov Deane | I use as reference for nusach Teiman-Balad תכלאל-תפילת אבות. It comes highly recommended and checked against multiple old manuscripts. It was published by Yaakov Karouaini in 5757. If you haven’t seen it, it’s definitely worth acquiring for anyone interested in studying the various nusachot. I highly recommend it. | |
| Jul 21, 2023 at 16:25 | comment | added | Deuteronomy | The Nusah Baladi presented in Siah Yerushalayim (which is generally regarded as reflective of the earliest versions of this nusah and is actively used in some Yemenite communities) does not have either of the claimed references. | |
| Jul 21, 2023 at 12:32 | comment | added | Yaacov Deane | @Shmuel The link you are providing to Bava Bathra 16a from Reish Lakish is translated poorly. The Hebrew means that all the angels derive from the level of הוא, meaning G-d trancendent of names. It does not say they are one. | |
| Jul 21, 2023 at 4:52 | history | edited | Yaacov Deane | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 21, 2023 at 4:31 | history | edited | Yaacov Deane | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 21, 2023 at 4:25 | comment | added | Yaacov Deane | Your comment has been addressed. (The omission for Shabbat is likely from the view that G-d’s angel doesn’t bring prosecution on Shabbat just like the earthly court. ) Even though the answer stated clearly that the Nusach Edot HaMizrach was simply similar. I’m not sure what you are trying to emphasize. Their nusach clearly shows that they acknowledge the angel of that name like all Orthodox Jews. | |
| Jul 21, 2023 at 4:19 | history | edited | Yaacov Deane | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 21, 2023 at 2:55 | history | edited | Yaacov Deane | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 21, 2023 at 1:31 | comment | added | Double AA♦ | The "Siddur Edot HaMizrach for the bedtime Kriat Shema" that you link to only has the word "Satan" on weekdays. So your initial claim is false twice. תפשת מרובה לא תפשת rather you'd be better off writing precisely without any hyperbole. | |
| Jul 20, 2023 at 22:25 | comment | added | Yaacov Deane | See my comment to Rabbi Kai’s answer. That may give you the other details you are asking now. And no, it’s not “nit picky”. This is a subject most people don’t learn in any depth these days. But there are many traditional sources available. | |
| Jul 20, 2023 at 22:20 | comment | added | einpoklum | So, this is certainly a relevant data point, thank you and +1. It still somewhat ambiguous regarding whether it is the one Satan, a personal historical entity, or whomever constitutes a satan, a hateful-enemy; but - perhaps I'm just being nitpicky.. | |
| Jul 20, 2023 at 18:34 | history | edited | Yaacov Deane | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 20, 2023 at 18:18 | comment | added | Shmuel | Note: the evil inclination mentioned here refers to satan, as the Gemara says | |
| Jul 20, 2023 at 18:12 | comment | added | Double AA♦ | Can you link to a text of this Yehi Ratzon that every contemporary Orthodox Jew says daily? Is this the Yehi Ratzon you refer to sefaria.org/… | |
| Jul 20, 2023 at 17:56 | history | answered | Yaacov Deane | CC BY-SA 4.0 |