Timeline for Proof from National Revelation
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
22 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mar 28, 2023 at 19:59 | comment | added | Binyamin | @msj121 I responded in chat recently | |
| Mar 23, 2023 at 17:56 | comment | added | Binyamin | Also so not too take up too much space in comments, lets go to chat | |
| Mar 23, 2023 at 17:55 | comment | added | Binyamin | Let us continue this discussion in chat. | |
| Mar 23, 2023 at 17:55 | comment | added | Binyamin | @msj121 You and I need motivation to do something but G-D is different, he isn't human so why does he have to have motivation | |
| Mar 23, 2023 at 17:53 | comment | added | msj121 | @Binyamin Fair enough. It's hard to explain in comments. In all fairness we can't understand an infinite being, but just explaining what is logical to me. Frivolous I assume means "no purpose". If so, what would motivate the action of creation? Nothing? I don't see "Nothing" as motivation to do "Anything". This is what I mean as illogical. Yes, you can "imagine" it, but logically I don't understand the motivation for action. | |
| Mar 23, 2023 at 17:39 | comment | added | Binyamin | @msj121 I still don't see why frivolous makes nos sense | |
| Mar 23, 2023 at 17:37 | comment | added | msj121 | @Binyamin I think its the logical default if you assume that the creator is lacking nothing. What is the alternative? I explained why Frivolous makes no sense. What gain would there be for Cruelty? They both don't make logical sense to me, but I might be missing something. | |
| Mar 23, 2023 at 17:34 | comment | added | Binyamin | Why is the logical default creating positive goal? | |
| Mar 23, 2023 at 17:19 | comment | added | msj121 | @Binyamin Well to me the logical default is that an infinite creator, creates for a positive purpose/goal. If he is infinite he gains nothing no matter what because he lacks nothing. Frivolous no one has any goal/purpose, what was the point? Why not create nothing. He certainly gains nothing and neither do we. At least when there is a positive goal for the created, the created gain something. There is a reason why creation happened. Cruelty I don't understand either... I suggest Ramchal's works. But prophetic experience implies a connection and a purpose | |
| Mar 23, 2023 at 2:38 | comment | added | Binyamin | Or just Frivoulus? | |
| Mar 23, 2023 at 2:38 | comment | added | Binyamin | So then you have to prove how he isn't cruel? | |
| Mar 22, 2023 at 23:00 | comment | added | msj121 | @Binyamin In depth check Ramchal. But once again we are looking not at "what if" but "what makes more sense". Why would an infinite being do something for no reason? Humanity I don't think does anything for "no reason". Creative entities create for a purpose. I don't think we need to define G-d as good (tho it helps), just that he lacks nothing, thus depends on nothing, thus creation can have no meaning or massive meaning. To me the latter makes much more sense. In fact the former might be cruel, to create for no reason implies abandonment too. Once again, why? "No reason" imo makes no sense | |
| Mar 22, 2023 at 20:47 | comment | added | Binyamin | Yeah, but that still goes back to why G-D want a purpose from us to ebing with. How do we know that he is good and didn't just create us for no reason? | |
| Mar 22, 2023 at 1:47 | comment | added | msj121 | @Binyamin If there is no "religion" or "commands" what is the test? How can you pass or fail? Listening/Believing a prophet or not has no value whether they are real or not without a framework. I also don't see a purpose in creation especially without prophecy nowadays. But you might be able to develop this idea further. I think once you do it might likely resemble Judaism imo - like the ramchal who develops Judaism from "first principles". Unless i misunderstand you | |
| Mar 21, 2023 at 19:41 | comment | added | Binyamin | But I still have the question? | |
| Mar 21, 2023 at 19:41 | comment | added | Binyamin | @RabbiKaii Very nice idea | |
| Mar 21, 2023 at 19:29 | comment | added | Rabbi Kaii | @Binyamin I would agree with the statement "God didn't want religion" :) I don't think Judaism was ever supposed to be a religion. Just a relationship between Hashem and His people. | |
| Mar 21, 2023 at 19:15 | comment | added | Binyamin | Ok, but maybe G-D didn't want a religion at all and just put in miracles to test to see if you would accept the prophet or not? | |
| Mar 21, 2023 at 17:49 | comment | added | msj121 | @Binyamin Well imagine the creator had two religions one true and one false. But the creator made the false one logical/miraculous/hitorical and the other one the opposite (or just less so). It is illogical to expect or demand adherence to the lesser "true" religion in my humble opinion. It is logical (imo) that any test should be passable and make sense I think. That is why false real miracles are a test in Judaism, because so much stands against even a real miracle that has a false claim to abandon Torah. But yes these are interesting questions. | |
| Mar 21, 2023 at 17:43 | comment | added | Binyamin | I agree with your last paragraph. But you could argue that G-D just put in miracles and really a different religion is true and the miracles are used to test you. (And Judaism says that directly.) | |
| Mar 21, 2023 at 17:19 | history | edited | msj121 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
added 355 characters in body
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| Mar 21, 2023 at 17:10 | history | answered | msj121 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |