Timeline for Is the following Trinitarian conceptual understanding of the deity polytheistic according to Jewish theology? [closed]
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| Jun 8, 2021 at 8:47 | history | closed |
יהושע ק Maurice Mizrahi sabbahillel Yaacov Deane Danny Schoemann |
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| Jun 4, 2021 at 12:47 | vote | accept | yters | ||
| Jun 4, 2021 at 7:45 | comment | added | The GRAPKE | @yters In order to avoid your entire line of reasoning, the Arizal states that the creation of the world was not yesh me'ayin (creatio ex nihilo) but was rather ayin mi'yesh (nothing from something). I.e. God made room in His infinite light for the existence of a universe in which His infinite light would not be apparent, for if it were, there would be no room for free will and evil, which would defeat the purpose of creation. | |
| Jun 4, 2021 at 6:53 | answer | added | Harel13 | timeline score: 9 | |
| Jun 4, 2021 at 0:29 | comment | added | yters | @Harel13 perfect, that is exactly the sort of refutation I was looking for, it is directed precisely against Aquinas formulation. I'll accept that as an answer, if you want to submit it. | |
| Jun 4, 2021 at 0:28 | comment | added | yters | @TheGRAPKE and Harel13 that's a good point. My grasp is limited, so this is as much as I understand. When the deity creates the world, the world does not thereby become identical with the deity. They are distinct. Likewise, if the deity uses his word to create the world, then it does not necessitate the word and the world are one. Just like when I write a computer program from an idea I have, the computer program does not become identical with the idea, as I can delete the program without deleting my idea. | |
| Jun 2, 2021 at 6:35 | comment | added | The GRAPKE | @yters The assumption of the question is that God is indivisible from his word and therefore all that is created thereby? | |
| Jun 2, 2021 at 1:03 | answer | added | N.T. | timeline score: 3 | |
| Jun 1, 2021 at 23:52 | comment | added | N.T. | In a practical sense, Jews don't have any opinion of the "true" nature of Christianity or its concepts. What matters to us is what the actual Christians believe. Whether they are objectively accurate descriptions of Christianity isn't our concern. When I meet a Christian, the status of his beliefs are an independent question completely aside from what Aquinas or Martin Luther or even Jesus thought. | |
| Jun 1, 2021 at 18:00 | comment | added | Harel13 | jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14519-trinity See in particular about Nachmanides. Is his argument also a strawman? | |
| Jun 1, 2021 at 17:32 | comment | added | Harel13 | @yters In that sense, all created things are ideas of God. What differentiates between us and "the word"? | |
| Jun 1, 2021 at 17:18 | comment | added | yters | @TheGRAPKE are you saying it sounds like pantheism that because the deity is speaking the world into existence, thus potentially implying an identity relationship between the deity and the world? Aquinas would distinguish between the word and its effect, and the two are not identical. | |
| Jun 1, 2021 at 17:15 | comment | added | yters | @Harel13 from what I understand, the idea is that the divine intellect has ideas, so just as our ideas are related to our minds, ideas don't occur in a vacuum, the divine idea and the divine mind must be related to each other. | |
| Jun 1, 2021 at 17:12 | comment | added | yters | @חִידָה thanks for the links. In the Shema prayer article, this is the same strawman issue. Many modern Christians, protestants especially, have a poor understanding of the traditional Trinitarian doctrine. The traditional doctrine would not be compatible with the 'bunch of grapes' description, so the missionaries are not correctly arguing for the Trinity in the first place. That is why in this question I am focusing on a particular clearly articulated formulation of the Trinity from one of the foremost traditional Christian theologians. | |
| Jun 1, 2021 at 17:07 | comment | added | yters | @MauriceMizrahi yes and no. The answer basically seemed to say the traditional Jewish view of the Trinity thought it was obviously polytheistic, and did not seem to involve any indepth thought about careful formulations of the Trinity that attempt to avoid polytheism, i.e. a strawman argument against the Trinity. What I am most interested in is a 'steelman' argument against the Trinity, where Jewish thought criticizes the most monotheistic formulation of the Trinity, of which Aquinas' is the best I've seen so far. So, in this question I am seeing if there is a criticism of Aquinas' version. | |
| Jun 1, 2021 at 16:19 | comment | added | חִידָה | outreachjudaism.org/trinity-shema-prayer | |
| Jun 1, 2021 at 16:17 | comment | added | חִידָה | outreachjudaism.org/the-trinity-audio | |
| Jun 1, 2021 at 13:19 | comment | added | Maurice Mizrahi | Didn't you get an answer you approved to your previous question that was closed? | |
| Jun 1, 2021 at 6:55 | review | Close votes | |||
| Jun 8, 2021 at 8:47 | |||||
| Jun 1, 2021 at 5:52 | comment | added | Harel13 | Yet at the same time, there must be a relationship between the word and from whence it proceeds - why? | |
| Jun 1, 2021 at 5:44 | comment | added | The GRAPKE | What you describe in the main body of the question sounds like Pantheism (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism)? | |
| Jun 1, 2021 at 5:01 | history | asked | yters | CC BY-SA 4.0 |